Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

Rakhmamort wrote:I'm not even sure if putting POWs to work is allowed by the rules on POWs.

There is no bar to paroling a POW. There is then no bar to employing a parolee.

I'm not sure that using prisoner labor is barred either; They are certainly requiring the POWs to build their own shelter.

Rakhmamort wrote:You mean you aren't afraid of a maintenance personnel setting fusion bottle control circuits to fail?? Why not?

Because we're not dealing with State Sec or Masadan Fanatics. I'm proposing dealing with able sailors and junior petty officers; those are historically NOT the source of prisoner revolts or escapes.

Rakhmamort wrote:Yeah, them sollies are dumb. They 're going to keep thinking about their plans to sabotage the ship, kill the guards all the time.

You're still not recognizing the importance of a direct question and a sworn oath as opposed to routine thoughts. Also, you're forgetting that treecats read emotions and not thoughts.

An electromechanical lie detector relies on reactions to specific questions. So does a treecat.

If you walk up to a POW his normal emotions probably won't cause any reaction from a treecat unless he's really close to an escape attempt and nervous about it.

If you walk up to a POW and ask a direct question like, "Are you planning to escape?" The POW's reaction is going to be at least a momentary "OMG! How'd he know?" with the accompanying emotions for the treecat to 'taste.'

Rakhmamort wrote:Lol! You want others to provide the solution to the security problems and yet you won't accept the response it is too much effort to spend???

The "effort" to interview SLN POWs is going to be expended interviewing POWs and/or candidates for various teaching positions the POWs would be able to fill in any case.

Security for gainfully employed parolees is a trivial expense, especially since the captured ships have to have security and a harbor watch until they're delivered to the breakers anyway.

Rakhmamort wrote:You don't have a solution, ..

I don't have a solution? That's news to me.

The solution is to NOT parole any fanatics or trouble-makers by avoiding the parole of officers and senior enlisted except as absolutely necessary. Then have a treecat monitor the parolees' oaths as a final check -- IF you have a treecat available.

Weird Harold wrote:There are course materials aboard for cooks,

I'm pretty sure these people do know how to cook already. Food production is not an area where high technology is necessary.

sick bay attendants,

As is a vast majority of the medical knowledge needed to maintain basic 20th-century level service.

officer's stewards,

Yeah, that sounds like something that everyone really needs.

environmental systems,

Not exactly. You get training manuals for the specific systems built into these specific SDs, but again: This is a mature technology. Teaching people how to operate, service and design it does not take an SD, it just takes a classroom and a couple workbenches.

plumbing,

Because that's certainly something that can be best taught on a warship!

computer hardware principles,

See above re: Classroom, workbenches. No SD needed at all, and given that the manuals will once again be mostly concerned with how to service SLN equipment, not the stuff that any SEM citizen would most likely use day-to-day, of marginal utilitiy anyway.

programming of molycirc computers,

Because that can't be taught better in a normal classroom environment, for sure!

and almost any other non-combat specialty you can think of. There are combat related training materials, too, of course, but that isn't what the poorer TQ systems need, they can be used or not as required.

Yes, and in every single one of those, the training opportunities and facilities are vastly inferior to what can be done planetside. Using these SDs as school ships to provide some capability that can be had in a year or two via normal means is not a good use of time and ressources. You are proposing measures that are designed to address a critical need, but there is no critical need at the moment. That's the crux of my argument here: You want to use these ships to do something, anything, right now to improve living conditions on the Talbott worlds.
What you are not seeing is that there is enough time to do this right, and certainly more than enough money available.

The E wrote:I'm pretty sure these people do know how to cook already. Food production is not an area where high technology is necessary.

How many High-school Students/college freshmen do you know who actually know how to cook? How many of those know how to prepare a balanced diet for 6,000?

High technology isn't required for a Cordon Bleu school either but people pay good money to attend. A military cook is a lot more than Sad Sack pealing potatoes and onions.

The E wrote:

environmental systems,

Not exactly. You get training manuals for the specific systems built into these specific SDs, but again: This is a mature technology. Teaching people how to operate, service and design it does not take an SD, it just takes a classroom and a couple workbenches.

No, it doesn't take an SD or even a mere destroyer, but an environmental tech needs to know both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. The course material for environmental career advancement would cover everything from apprentice level filter scrubbing to system design. The course material would cover ground-side systems as well, because a tour in a ground base someday might be in a tech's future.

The E wrote:

plumbing,

Because that's certainly something that can be best taught on a warship!

Not necessarily the best place to teach it, but there's career advancement course for plumbers mate aboard. Actually probably as set of courses that cover everything from apprentice level shipboard maintenance to design level caontr-grav building requirements.

The E wrote:

computer hardware principles,

See above re: Classroom, workbenches. No SD needed at all, and given that the manuals ...

You're not getting the point that there are more than manuals aboard a warship; there are the course materials for career advancement for every specialty a navy has. The course materials are the equivalent of a correspondence branch of a Landing University

A SLN warship isn't the ideal place to teach civilians, but it is a place where SLN sailors spend years at a time constantly training on their career path and on off-duty college courses if they are so inclined.

The E wrote:

programming of molycirc computers,

Because that can't be taught better in a normal classroom environment, for sure!

On a poor planet like pre-war Grayson that didn't have molycircs, there wouldn't be any "normal classroom environment" available.

The E wrote:

and almost any other non-combat specialty you can think of. There are combat related training materials, too, of course, but that isn't what the poorer TQ systems need, they can be used or not as required.

Yes, and in every single one of those, the training opportunities and facilities are vastly inferior to what can be done planetside.

You've obviously never dealt with military education, have you?

The knowledge and course materials contained in those ships is the equivalent of a Solarian University. Along with the computer support to administer those courses either with an instructor/Trainer, or on a self-learning basis.

The E wrote:Using these SDs as school ships to provide some capability that can be had in a year or two via normal means is not a good use of time and resources.

Given the choice of a Manticoran education in a year or two, or a Solarian education this year, which would you choose?

(If a r/w US "Boomer" submarine can provide my brother with a pre-med degree and most of his doctorate, why should I expect a Warship 2000 years in the future to do less?)

The E wrote: You are proposing measures that are designed to address a critical need, but there is no critical need at the moment. That's the crux of my argument here: You want to use these ships to do something, anything, right now to improve living conditions on the Talbott worlds.

No, I'm not trying to address a "critical need" I'm just trying to make use of resources that are at hand to accelerate what is going to happen anyway.

I recognize that a SLN warship must have at least as much educational material aboard as warships of today have, and the TQ needs to upgrade its education system.

Where compatible downlinks for distance learning are possible, that would be preferable, but getting the knowledge to students this year instead of a year or two from now is desirable -- NOT "Critical," just "desirable."


the equipment is set up and works where it is, today. Why take the chance it won't work or be compatible some time in the future when you get around to setting it back up.

Also, just a point to consider: A pinnace is described as the size of a "pre-space jumbo jet" Shuttles are bigger.

On Basilisk Station wrote:"Probably not," he agreed, and opened the cockpit hatch. He made his way down the cramped passage (pinnaces were little larger than pre-space jumbo jets) to the flight engineer's cubicle and poked his head in.

A lot of students or patients can be lifted to orbit in each flight. Being in orbit isn't a problem for contra-grav transportation.

Harold, first let me congratulate you on fighting your ground well; against formidable opposition you have shown knowledge of the Honorverse and technology and 'have kept your head when all about you are losing theirs' (yeah, I'm looking at you, Relax... ).

That said, I think in the end the reliance on Sollie parolee's is your Achilles heel. Using treecats is a elegant solution (sort of like Ghekhis(sic) on Torch), but those poor six-legged souls are going to be working to protect the various dignataries in the Talbott Quadrant, having to adjust to new planets, and who knows what other intelligence activities, so asking them to further 'taste' literally thousands of Sollie prisoners a day is perhaps a bridge to far.

I'm still going to go with turning the ships over to the various systems based on need (As you have said, Nuncio probably could use the tech transfer more than Rembrandt) and allow them to 'strip' the ships as they wish, based on their needs.

For example, Lets say Nuncio gets 8SD's, 4 BC's, and 4 CA's as it's part of the haul (moving them there will require engineering and bridge crews, but the Samothrace and some of the other Mantie ships may have some young Lt's willing to have a 7MT SD "command" under their resume). Stripping out just the medical and machine shops (for the most beneficial items) may not cause an Industrial revolution, but it can provide the tools to build the tools to build a more modern society (the SL Navy may be dedicant; no one has said that the SL lacks manufacturing or medical expertise--after all Beowulf is still (technically) a member as of ART conclusion).

Plus Nuncio gets the 'practice' of having their spacers doing the dismantling/downloading/transport of the items--it's likely to help create an economic boomlet all by itself--and get more people (albeit commercially) into space and develop more of the system. And combine this with putting the 30-40 pinnaces (w/o weapons), shuttles and other smaller ships up for auction to help develop the system....

And finally, it lets' Nuncio (and for that matter, all the Talbott systems) to make the decision for their benefit. Not being dictated to by the Empire; but instead, the Empire trusting them to make the best use of these resources (while the SEM organizes and provides the training to their personnel for eventual naval service.

Again, this is my opinion, and I expect you will once agin provide a reasoned, yet impassioned rebuttal to it; I look forward to seeing it.

Weird Harold wrote:How many High-school Students/college freshmen do you know who actually know how to cook? How many of those know how to prepare a balanced diet for 6,000?

What does that have to do with anything? Of course they can't cook, but the skillset you want to teach is one that does not require an SLN SD, or a spaceborne platform to teach. It can be done just as well in any number of normal kitchens.

High technology isn't required for a Cordon Bleu school either but people pay good money to attend. A military cook is a lot more than Sad Sack pealing potatoes and onions.

Never said anything else. Just saying that the need for those cooks isn't great enough to make this scheme worthwhile.

No, it doesn't take an SD or even a mere destroyer, but an environmental tech needs to know both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. The course material for environmental career advancement would cover everything from apprentice level filter scrubbing to system design. The course material would cover ground-side systems as well, because a tour in a ground base someday might be in a tech's future.

And any system that has space-based infrastructure will have training facilities for this sort of thing already, or have working relationships with systems that do. It's not necessary to cart in an SD or ten to provide that schooling.

Not necessarily the best place to teach it, but there's career advancement course for plumbers mate aboard. Actually probably as set of courses that cover everything from apprentice level shipboard maintenance to design level caontr-grav building requirements.

And again, any system that needs those plumbers probably already has all the facilities needed to train them. No SDs needed.

You're not getting the point that there are more than manuals aboard a warship; there are the course materials for career advancement for every specialty a navy has. The course materials are the equivalent of a correspondence branch of a Landing University

And what you're not getting is that, while there is a plethora of training manuals available, they're not needed in the systems you want to deploy them to. Any need for these training materials can probably be filled quite easily out of existing civilian ressources, or even existing RMN ressources, if you're really so desperate as to rely on military ressources to fill a civilian want.

A SLN warship isn't the ideal place to teach civilians, but it is a place where SLN sailors spend years at a time constantly training on their career path and on off-duty college courses if they are so inclined.

Yes, and? Given that the people you want to train are civilians, why put them through a training regime that isn't well-suited for them? Why go through all the trouble involved in teaching people how to behave safely aboard a warship, just to train them how to cook, or be a plumber, or how to program? It won't get the job done quicker, or better.

On a poor planet like pre-war Grayson that didn't have molycircs, there wouldn't be any "normal classroom environment" available.

Yes, because classrooms or computers can't exist on something as primitive as a pre-molycirc planet. Sure.

Programming can be taught with pencils and papers. You don't need the latest and greatest in order to do it, and as such, getting teaching hardware and manuals out there should be easy. Also a task that doesn't take an SD's facilities, just a couple thousand tons of cargo capacity on a freighter.

You are also assuming that molycircs everywhere are the same, or programming paradigms and development suites are the same everywhere. This is so far unproven.

You've obviously never dealt with military education, have you?

The knowledge and course materials contained in those ships is the equivalent of a Solarian University. Along with the computer support to administer those courses either with an instructor/Trainer, or on a self-learning basis.

I've only dealt with the Bundeswehr, and how it does training, which isn't applicable knowledge in this case.

Why do you want to put people through a style of training using equipment and training manuals that will be just a temporary measure? When proper civilian education is already on the horizon? I submit to you that there just isn't a great need to put people through this sort of program just to give them a couple of months of head start, certainly not enough of a need to justify dealing with all the headaches this scheme of yours comes packaged with.

Given the choice of a Manticoran education in a year or two, or a Solarian education this year, which would you choose?

Irrelevant question. Why do these people need to start their education now? Why do these people need to start their education now using hardware and training manuals that are going to be superceded by Manticoran hardware and manuals soon?

(If a r/w US "Boomer" submarine can provide my brother with a pre-med degree and most of his doctorate, why should I expect a Warship 2000 years in the future to do less?)

If I recall my Clancy right, this means that your brother spent several months at a time on deployments where access to civilian education just wasn't possible.

The SLN, as you may recall, has a slightly different operational posture than the USN. Assuming that they are stocked the same way as a USN vessel would be isn't exactly prudent, especially given that Prolong changes the equation quite a bit.
Nowadays, when you enter the military, you have to plan for what you're going to do after you leave the service (unless you're going for lifelong service). As such, and given that everyone involved realizes that knowing how to field-strip a rifle in under a minute isn't exactly the most transferable of skills, most moder militaries offer education options to their soldiers.

With prolong, that changes a bit. So what if you spend a decade being a Soldier, and then spend five years in University? Unlike today, where a person who did this would have spent most of their adult life by this point, a prolong recipient would just be leaving the equivalent of young adulthood.

The pressure just isn't there, you know?

I recognize that a SLN warship must have at least as much educational material aboard as warships of today have, and the TQ needs to upgrade its education system.

Where compatible downlinks for distance learning are possible, that would be preferable, but getting the knowledge to students this year instead of a year or two from now is desirable -- NOT "Critical," just "desirable."

Sure, it's desirable alright. I'm just doubting that your way of addressing that desire is actually good.

A lot of students or patients can be lifted to orbit in each flight. Being in orbit isn't a problem for contra-grav transportation.

Training people to behave safely aboard a warship, however, is.

Hutch wrote:That said, I think in the end the reliance on Sollie parolee's is your Achilles heel.

Yep. that is the biggest problem -- but, the SLN POWs know those ships and their systems. And using them doesn't draw on the TQ or SEM's manpower resources nearly as much as leaving them to get sunburned.

Hutch wrote:Using treecats is a elegant solution (sort of like Ghekhis(sic) on Torch), but those poor six-legged souls are going to be working to protect the various dignataries in the Talbott Quadrant, having to adjust to new planets, and who knows what other intelligence activities, so asking them to further 'taste' literally thousands of Sollie prisoners a day is perhaps a bridge to far.

Using a treecat is a mere decoration. Gaolers have been sorting out trustees and collaborators for as long as there have been gaolers. It might take a little longer without a treecat's help, but I don't see any evidence of fanaticism in the rank and file of the SLN.

Hutch wrote:I'm still going to go with turning the ships over to the various systems based on need (As you have said, Nuncio probably could use the tech transfer more than Rembrandt) and allow them to 'strip' the ships as they wish, based on their needs.

As long as each system is made aware of the possibilities beyond scrap value, I don't see a problem with that philosophy. The problem, as demonstrated in this thread, is that there is a very strong tendency to think of them as "obsolete warships" and ignore the fact that each warship, and especially the SDs is also an overpowered city in its own right. It has power to spare because of redundant fusion plants -- power which might be beamable to remote areas. It has theaters and HD channels with relatively recent SL entertainment. It has Solarian standard medical facilities optimized for damage control -- AKA Trauma Care. It has oodles of solarian built computers -- recently updated for Fleet 2000 in a lot of cases, otherwise the standard SLN computers over the last century.

Powered down and chopped (to pieces with the equivalent of stone hand axes because there's no military grade shipyards in the TQ) each ship is worth a good deal. Kept intact and powered up so there is access to educational materials and programs, access to a functioning modern machine shop, a medical department, and an unknown number of other useful systems.

Hutch wrote:Stripping out just the medical and machine shops (for the most beneficial items) may not cause an Industrial revolution, but it can provide the tools to build the tools to build a more modern society (the SL Navy may be dedicant; no one has said that the SL lacks manufacturing or medical expertise--after all Beowulf is still (technically) a member as of ART conclusion).

How many of those systems will be useful ground-side I can't say because I don't know -- the ships computers probably do, and if you've got multiple ships, you can move equipment ground-side in an orderly fashion with support from a functional ship's shops and computers.

If you just power down and fire up the cutting torches, you'll never know why something doesn't work when you have problems

Hutch wrote:Plus Nuncio gets the 'practice' of having their spacers doing the dismantling/downloading/transport of the items--it's likely to help create an economic boomlet ...

Except for one minor detail: There's no shipyard capable of modifying or dismantling warships.

Hutch wrote:And finally, it lets' Nuncio (and for that matter, all the Talbott systems) to make the decision for their benefit. Not being dictated to by the Empire; but instead, the Empire trusting them to make the best use of these resources (while the SEM organizes and provides the training to their personnel for eventual naval service.

The one captured SLN ship that Nuncio could definitely use is the SLN repair ship that was with Adm Crandal's task force. They probably still have the hulk of that camel-back solarian freighter that Abigail Hearns and midshipwoman pahvletic (sp) shot the hyper-generator and drive rooms out of.

I Imagine Manticore has snagged that for assistance n rebuilding the Old Kingdom, but Nuncio could use its own hyper capable freighter -- especially if they have to cannibalize a military hyper generator and military drives to put her back in service.

Weird Harold wrote:

Rakhmamort wrote:It is not a small point. Keeping those SDs active will be a drain on resources. If they were within shouting distance of the pre pod manty ships, maybe they have some training value, ...

You persist in thinking of them as warships that I'm trying to keep operational. I'm not, I'm trying to keep them habitable and minimally functional. Maintaining a harbor watch is much cheaper than keeping a ship ready for action.

Why shouldn't I touch on its warship aspects? You want to train people on obsolete tech, on different hardware and inferior designs? You are not listening to several aspects that point out that that is not a good thing.

Training citizens from newly joined planet on not even secondary quality equipment is an insult and would breed resentment.

You can train them better on the ground.

You have no limit to the size of class a groundside school can accomodate.

You have limited berthing space in an SD. Some of those cabins are taken up by people keeping the ship up. Some of those are taken by people you want to handle the hospital.

If you want to train new generation of space skilled people, transport them to Manticore. They can be given basic training there (which Manticore already has infrastructure for). Then learn on the job(there is massive rebuilding efforts there that newbies will have lots of chances to learn).

In Manticore, they will be trained in equipment they will be using in the future. Current doctrine, current checklist, current everything.

Your cost? Travel time. Hell, the travel time may be just about right. Transport unloads then go back to TQ for next batch. Turn around time might just be enough to finish basic training. When they move on to advanced training or on the job training, they will free up the basic training facilities for the next batch of people.

Every warship spends the vast majority of its time training. It therefore has the resources to train people. I'm not talking about teaching people to operate SLN warships, I'm talking about using the training resources (computers, simulators, lesson plans, general data, etc) to teach "remedial modern civilization."

There are course materials aboard for cooks, sick bay attendants, officer's stewards, environmental systems, plumbing, computer hardware principles, programming of molycirc computers, and almost any other non-combat specialty you can think of. There are combat related training materials, too, of course, but that isn't what the poorer TQ systems need, they can be used or not as required.

See my response above.

Rakhmamort wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:The captured ships were captured completely equipped -- including all of their contra-grav shuttles and pinnaces. most of the TQ could use those even if they had to reserve one or two for med-evac.

and how many small craft are there?

imagine, need to go to the trauma center... hightail it to the nearest spaceport and grab a pinnace so you can get to the medical bay of that orbiting obsolete warship! lol!

instead of being available for walk in emergencies you have to travel out of the gravity well just to get that spurting artery fixed. not good...

if you said it's for those filthy rich people in the planet who want to get into regen tanks, maybe just maybe you can convince somebody that they can make 'pleasure' medical resorts ot of them.. but for trauma centers.. you need those to be very accessible to everybody

Assuming they're equipped like RMN or RHN SDs each SD would have around dozen or so impeller driven counter-grav shuttles/pinnaces plus maybe another half dozen counter-grav reaction drive shuttles.

And at least the pinnaces and shuttles are rough field capable; designed to (among other things) drop and retrieve marines. They should be able to land most places a modern helicopter could. (Not all, since they're quite a bit bigger. OTOH they don't need to worry about blade strikes)


If you're out in the boonies, but can call for help (radio/phone/com-net link/etc), a shuttle from orbit can probably get to you quicker than a air-van ambulance from the nearest city.

If you're in a city with a major hospital it'd be quicker to go there; obviously. But if you're in a smaller town with only minor medical facilities and needed to be medevaced to a better facility it might be quicker for a shuttle to pick up and take you to orbit than an air-car to run you to the nearest groundside hospital. Not always, but depending on how far away that hospital is.


With counter-grav it's a quick smooth ride to orbit and with impeller drive, once above the atmosphere, you can accelerate at hundreds of Gs without the patent experiencing any buffeting or acceleration at all (well, a perfectly steady 1g downwards from the grav-plates; but you know what I mean). You should be able to get to a station or ship halfway round the planet in less time than an airvan takes to go a 3-400 miles.

(Of course you could use those same shuttles/pinnaces to transport to a groundside hospital; but to really crank up the speed you've got to be exo-atmospheric. Straight up until you can kick off the impellers and really start moving. Though you could do a sub-orbital path to a distant hospital and still beat an aircar)

So for trauma cases the question is are there a significant number of injuries occurring that are more than say 400 miles from a regional trauma center?
And obviously if using them to supplement the planet's facilities for non-emergency medicine transit time isn't important; their medical capabilities and size is.


Whether all this is cost effective is a different question - but depending on the distribution of population and regional trauma centers the transportation angle might not be a strike against this plan.

The E wrote:What does that have to do with anything? Of course they can't cook, but the skillset you want to teach is one that does not require an SLN SD,

So ignore the food service courses. There are probably 499 other d\career tracks to choose from, not counting any additional civilian courses that might be available.

The E wrote:And any system that has space-based infrastructure will have training facilities for this sort of thing already, or have working relationships with systems that do. It's not necessary to cart in an SD or ten to provide that schooling.

A planet like Nuncio has a hand-full of old-style LACs and a couple of communications satellites: That's not exactly "space based infrastructure." Nuncio is not the only "hardscrabble" system in the TQ. a dozen captured SLN ships with their small craft might give them a decent head start on a "space-based infrastructure."

The E wrote:And what you're not getting is that, while there is a plethora of training manuals available, they're not needed in the systems you want to deploy them to. Any need for these training materials can probably be filled quite easily out of existing civilian ressources, or even existing RMN ressources, if you're really so desperate as to rely on military ressources to fill a civilian want.

Again, a system like Nuncio doesn't have any "civilian resources" that are within about a century of the knowledge base in a solarian warship.

You're missing the point that I'm not talking about "manuals" but about interactive computer programs -- possible with teaching AIs, possibly with just an "expert system" to monitor progress.

The E wrote:Yes, and? Given that the people you want to train are civilians, why put them through a training regime that isn't well-suited for them? Why go through all the trouble involved in teaching people how to behave safely aboard a warship, just to train them how to cook, or be a plumber, or how to program? It won't get the job done quicker, or better.

Why would you think the teaching programs would be unsuitable for civilians? An SD would require as many as
500 different skills to function and those skills would be to solarian standards -- a century or so more technical than than a system like Nuncio that is still struggling back from near extinction.

The E wrote:

On a poor planet like pre-war Grayson that didn't have molycircs, there wouldn't be any "normal classroom environment" available.

Yes, because classrooms or computers can't exist on something as primitive as a pre-molycirc planet. Sure.

No, a pre-molycirc planet would have classrooms. They wouldn't have any information on molycircs to teach in them, or computers capable of running solarian teaching programs.

The E wrote:Programming can be taught with pencils and papers. You don't need the latest and greatest in order to do it, and as such, getting teaching hardware and manuals out there should be easy. Also a task that doesn't take an SD's facilities, just a couple thousand tons of cargo capacity on a freighter.

Who pays for that freighter and with what? Where does that cargo come from?

Manticores manufacturing capability has been destroyed, so has Grayson's -- That's civilian as well as military. They are at war with the Solarian league and everyone else's tech base is either solarian or as incompatible as solarian tech.

The TQ's regional budget might come up with the freight charges, and there a a pot-full of civilian ships looking for cargo since Case Lacoon kicked off, but there's no manticoran tech available and the SL is embargoed.

The E wrote:You are also assuming that molycircs everywhere are the same, or programming paradigms and development suites are the same everywhere. This is so far unproven.

Horace Harkness managed to turn his manticoran computer skills into Havenite hacking uber-skills on PNS Tepes. I'd take that as strong evidence that molycircs are fairly similar everywhere.

The E wrote:I've only dealt with the Bundeswehr, and how it does training, which isn't applicable knowledge in this case.

I worked with Luftwaffe pilots at George AFB, CA. and again when stationed at Spangdahlem AB. I didn't find their education to be specialized to the point of uselessness.

The E wrote:Why do you want to put people through a style of training using equipment and training manuals that will be just a temporary measure? When proper civilian education is already on the horizon? I submit to you that there just isn't a great need to put people through this sort of program just to give them a couple of months of head start, certainly not enough of a need to justify dealing with all the headaches this scheme of yours comes packaged with.

Because part of the training is theory which applies to civilian or military applications. Theory which is about a century better than what is available on "neobarb" planets.

Partly because training programs for technical military careers begin at a "Zero Level" -- they assume you can read at a fourth or fifth grade level and give you everything else you'll need to follow the theory.

Finally, I'd put civilians through military courses because the USAF gave me the equivalent of an associates degree in electrical engineering (minus two English credits of gaining certification as such) in 15 months or so; Civilian education would require two full years minimum.

The SEM needs manpower for the Army, Navy and Marines, plus ship yard and other skilled workers. Partly to replace those killed in the Yawata Strike, and partly because they're at war with the Solarian League. The Star Empire may not have a year or two to wait for Talboters to begin remedial education. Talboters will survive, but they may never get that remedial education if they can't contribute to the SEM's defense soon.
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Rakhmamort wrote:Why shouldn't I touch on its warship aspects?

Because the manning requirements as a warship are different from those of an orbital school that isn't training anyone to use the warship aspects.

Rakhmamort wrote:You want to train people on obsolete tech, on different hardware and inferior designs? You are not listening to several aspects that point out that that is not a good thing.

Adm Rozhak in the Maya sector Frontier Fleet didn't seem to have any problem upgrading from "antiquated Solarian Crap" to Erewhon built mostly-manty tech. Most of his personnel were trained on exactly the same sort of systems I'm proposing to use for education. There doesn't seem to be any drawback to being trained on "different hardware and inferior designs"in evidence.