Honorverse Top Ten Tacticians, Strategists

Starsaber wrote:Another definition problem is whether they're talking about tacticians in terms of handling an individual ship or a fleet. Someone who is good at one might not be good at the other.

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I told you all, trying to lump it all together is silly. Just because the lot of you insist on doing it this way does not efface my previously discussed reservations, yet it certainly will affect my final decisions. The reason I have Courvosier first on my list ahead of Honor is because he taught her! I personally feel that he is one of the greatest strategists and tacticians in the series. His strategy to hone the talents, in a participatory fashion, of Manticore's most promising biological naval resources, and recognizing what is quite possibly Manticore's greatest tactician in all of the Honorverse then proceeding to prevent her from falling through the cracks supersedes anything anyone else may have done. With respect to King Roger and Edward Saganami it is the single most greatest strategic and tactical maneuver entwined! You all, mostly, have Honor as top of your list but Honor may have flunked out if not for Courvosier. The RMN's ultimate strategy was to win the war by churning out better trained officers aboard technologically superior hardware.

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I adamantly argue in favor of Saganami being on the list because he belongs on the list.

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Absolutely, Terekhov will remain in my top five, I will not be moved on that. My list, my decisions.

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The fact that Courvosier was killed during the events of Yeltsin does not negate his obvious brilliance and I am appalled at the suggestion. He was caught unawares and off guard, donning a uniform he certainly never intended to wear, nor should have needed to, all without previous strategy or planning, in the middle of, technically, someone else's war. He was caught unawares, as Honor was once caught and forced to surrender.

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Could it be that most of you are holding out against distinguishing between the two because you are struggling with it? To reiterate, for any still aimlessly lost on the battlefield, strategy is what is planned in the War Room on paper. Tactics are what happens in the heat of battle to prevent that heat from catching your ass and your papers on fire!

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That is an inaccurate assessment of my statements at the recital. I merely alluded to the fact that employing tactics without strategy is irresponsible. And yes, I continue to believe that tactics fall under the umbrella of strategy. I refuse to say which is more important because that isn't a fair question. You have Generals and all else under him. A General not having a handle on strategy will get his men killed. His men, not having a handle on tactics will get themselves and their comrades killed.

Strategy is concerned with why and how, tactics the what. Just like in chess, especially 3-D chess, a lack of a good strategy predisposes you to wasting time on useless tactics. Strategy focuses the objectives. No matter how good your tactics, failing to employ a strategy first is the same as going off all half-cocked.

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cthia wrote:Latest email snippets from my niece. The correspondence is quite humorous. I have permission to post hers.

[SNIP]

Remember, she's twelve years old arguing against college students. Although most, as I understand, are merely sophomores. I am completely neutral. She wouldn't dare ask my help. It's not her style. As if I could help her. As if she needs help.

I really like her description of strategy and tactics. It's funny. I think I'll include it on my one-liner's page. She earned it. She said she was upset when she came up with it, but I think it's fine. And funny. They are kicking it around my office and laughing their heads off. They all know her.

Hutch wrote:

Starsaber wrote:Another definition problem is whether they're talking about tacticians in terms of handling an individual ship or a fleet. Someone who is good at one might not be good at the other.

I guess all parties will have to come to Honorcon in Oct-Nov and we can debate it there (loudly and with much drink--except for minors, who are restricted to Sasparilla....

cthia wrote:Latest email snippets from my niece. The correspondence is quite humorous. I have permission to post hers.

[SNIP]

Remember, she's twelve years old arguing against college students. Although most, as I understand, are merely sophomores. I am completely neutral. She wouldn't dare ask my help. It's not her style. As if I could help her. As if she needs help.

I really like her description of strategy and tactics. It's funny. I think I'll include it on my one-liner's page. She earned it. She said she was upset when she came up with it, but I think it's fine. And funny. They are kicking it around my office and laughing their heads off. They all know her.

roseandheather wrote:
...if your niece was ten years older I'd be asking you if she was single.

Hutch wrote:

Starsaber wrote:Another definition problem is whether they're talking about tacticians in terms of handling an individual ship or a fleet. Someone who is good at one might not be good at the other.

I guess all parties will have to come to Honorcon in Oct-Nov and we can debate it there (loudly and with much drink--except for minors, who are restricted to Sasparilla....

*quietly seethes at missing Honorcon* 2018. 2018. 2018.

cthia wrote:
Rose,
There are times, many times, that I'd gladly let you have her. Like after she trounces me consistently in 3D chess with such a smug incidental matter-of-fact Alex Trebek-like stare.

Wait! You won't be attending Honor Con??? You're going to miss her! My sister is attending as well. She wants to meet some of the forumites before giving my niece permission to join the forum. That was their deal.

cthia wrote:

"Strategy is what is planned aboard ship before the actual fighting, or at the War room. Tactics are what happens during the heat of battle to keep your ass from catching fire." -Cthia's 12-year-old niece

Remember, she's twelve years old arguing against college students.

roseandheather wrote:...if your niece was ten years older I'd be asking you if she was single.

roseandheather wrote:

cthia wrote:
Rose,
There are times, many times, that I'd gladly let you have her. Like after she trounces me consistently in 3D chess with such a smug incidental matter-of-fact Alex Trebek-like stare.

Wait! You won't be attending Honor Con??? You're going to miss her! My sister is attending as well. She wants to meet some of the forumites before giving my niece permission to join the forum. That was their deal.

Unfortunately, I have bigger fish to fry. So no, probably no HonorCon for me for quite awhile. But frankly I don't care if I have to move heaven and earth to do it, I will be there for the 25th anniversary HonorCon - and in full Grayson uniform to boot. So tell your niece she better be there too!!

Tenshinai wrote:Tactical list:

Foraker (do not mess with her)
Overstegen (gets in your mind and then makes it spin)
Theisman (a superior "classic style" officer)
Abigail Hearns (she´s going to be DANGEROUS )
Harrington (brilliant but has some bad flaws)
Sonja Hemphill (Podnaughts and Apollo... etc)
Terehkov (might climb higher on the list in the future...)
McQueen (ouchy)
Tourville (needs his 6th sense tuned a bit but otherwise superb )
Rozsak (not someone to take on lightly, or preferably at all)
Helen Zilwicki (up and coming, going to be very nasty)


Strategical list:

Theisman (just impressive)
Rozsak (master planner and plotter extraordinaire)
Abigail Hearns (run away!)
Overstegen (brilliant)
Terehkov (one step ahead )
Alexander (solid with some brilliance)
Harrington (solid and intelligent)
McQueen (failed, but even with random bad luck it wasn´t by much)
Khumalo (not obvious but he´s doing a SUPERB job in a difficult position with not enough resources, delegation is actually a very difficult skill to learn correctly)
Helen Zilwicki (still climbing fast in skill)


Lists are in rough order and i may have forgot someone or messed up what which one did, but it´s a start.
Only using ~current characters. And i have another 5 or 10 for both lists, that might take over, it´s really hard to rank them.

Them's my votes and I'm sticking with them (at least for another hour or two...)

Starsaber wrote:Another definition problem is whether they're talking about tacticians in terms of handling an individual ship or a fleet. Someone who is good at one might not be good at the other.