Honorverse Top Ten Tacticians, Strategists

tlb wrote:Of course, whoever was head of the Ballroom would have been invited to join the cabinet as war minister. As it happens that was Jeremy X.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Of course, but that's not what I meant. I meant about personalities -- Berry and this putative leader may not have gone along well. Suppose he or she refuses to address her as Your Mousety or worse, refuses to accept a monarchy despite Prof. Du Havel's arguments.

Then the books would have had to go off in a different direction, the same as if certain of Cthia's suggestions had been written in.

tlb wrote:It is true that he did not have a "plan" for galactic domination, instead he had a plan to improve the human baseline using the results of the improvements tested on the indentured servants.

I wanted to circle back around to this in due time. I think the time is due.

Maybe Leonard did or did not have a plan for galactic domination. Either way, I am unsure that he would not have been aware that if he was successful in his vision then galactic domination - of that DNA - might be the logical, inevitable conclusion.

What would be the outcome of millions upon millions of truly superior human DNA. Let's put it another way. What would be the result of a galaxy with millions of humans exactly like Honor Harrington. People with the potential of Honor Harrington. Complete navies with entire crews of well trained "Honor Harringtons."

If "only the strong survive" then, unlike the Scrags, what about "the strong and truly highly intelligent?"

tlb wrote:It is true that he did not have a "plan" for galactic domination, instead he had a plan to improve the human baseline using the results of the improvements tested on the indentured servants.

cthia wrote:I wanted to circle back around to this in due time. I think the time is due.

Maybe Leonard did or did not have a plan for galactic domination. Either way, I am unsure that he would not have been aware that if he was successful in his vision then galactic domination - of that DNA - might be the logical, inevitable conclusion.

What would be the outcome of millions upon millions of truly superior human DNA. Let's put it another way. What would be the result of a galaxy with millions of humans exactly like Honor Harrington. People with the potential of Honor Harrington. Complete navies with entire crews of well trained "Honor Harringtons."

If "only the strong survive" then, unlike the Scrags, what about "the strong and truly highly intelligent?"

I am not sure what you mean; once it was out in the wild he would no longer have control of that DNA. Suppose everyone was like Honor; then he would get thanks, but not control.

tlb wrote:I am not sure what you mean; once it was out in the wild he would no longer have control of that DNA. Suppose everyone was like Honor; then he would get thanks, but not control.

If everyone is as capable as Honor, then Honor isn't her generation's best strategist. She's just like any one in another ten million or one in ten billion. That doesn't give anyone advantage, because if any polity can have a thousand Honors to figure out their strategy, none will get ahead of any other.

Like tlb, I'd say "job well done, what's next?"

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

tlb wrote:I am not sure what you mean; once it was out in the wild he would no longer have control of that DNA. Suppose everyone was like Honor; then he would get thanks, but not control.

If everyone is as capable as Honor, then Honor isn't her generation's best strategist. She's just like any one in another ten million or one in ten billion. That doesn't give anyone advantage, because if any polity can have a thousand Honors to figure out their strategy, none will get ahead of any other.

Like tlb, I'd say "job well done, what's next?"

Both of you are missing the point. All Leonard may have wanted is to poke a finger in Beowulf's eye. We already concluded that Leonard may not have wanted "galactic domination" for himself. He may have wanted it for his product. Think of it as an arms dealer who is selling superior arms to all sides.

But, if specific systems are more informed and are exclusively investing in these uplifted humans (like the Japanese exclusively invested in robotics) then these systems and their navies may begin to thrive in time, and end up totally dominating the galaxy. The RF.

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cthia wrote:But, if specific systems are more informed and are exclusively investing in these uplifted humans then these systems and their navies may begin to thrive in time. And end up totally dominating the galaxy. The RF.

If they have an advantage, even if temporary, then I'd agree, they could. That wasn't what we've heard of Leonard's plan: he wanted to uplift all of humanity. That doesn't however conflict with the possibility that giving some portions of humanity an economic leg up or, like the MAlign later and as he was directly accused of by Beowulf, of reserving some genetic improvements to a select few.

Either way, it didn't work. However genetically superior the Star Lines may be, that doesn't seem to be enough to overcome the technological and economic deficit compared to the GA.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:But, if specific systems are more informed and are exclusively investing in these uplifted humans then these systems and their navies may begin to thrive in time. And end up totally dominating the galaxy. The RF.

If they have an advantage, even if temporary, then I'd agree, they could. That wasn't what we've heard of Leonard's plan: he wanted to uplift all of humanity. That doesn't however conflict with the possibility that giving some portions of humanity an economic leg up or, like the MAlign later and as he was directly accused of by Beowulf, of reserving some genetic improvements to a select few.

Either way, it didn't work. However genetically superior the Star Lines may be, that doesn't seem to be enough to overcome the technological and economic deficit compared to the GA.

Hasn't worked yet. Leonard's vision was one encompassing centuries.

Its effect may also take centuries. Japan's sole investment in robotics took decades to show a profit. But look at them now. Who can compete?

Their investment singlehandedly destroyed Detroit.

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cthia wrote:Its effect may also take centuries. China's sole investment in robotics took decades to show a profit. But look at them now. Who can compete?

Their investment singlehandedly destroyed Detroit.

Pretty sure that you mean Japan, which invested in robots (and especially Quality Control) and brought the American auto industry to crisis (which they have since survived).

I do not know of any major influx of autos from China.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:If they have an advantage, even if temporary, then I'd agree, they could. That wasn't what we've heard of Leonard's plan: he wanted to uplift all of humanity.

Hmm, the moral of the story??


The best laid plans of mice and men?

or

If it can be, technology originally intended for humanitarian purposes will always be weaponized first. So says Leonard's heirs.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Its effect may also take centuries. China's sole investment in robotics took decades to show a profit. But look at them now. Who can compete?

Their investment singlehandedly destroyed Detroit.

Pretty sure that you mean Japan, which invested in robots (and especially Quality Control) and brought the American auto industry to crisis (which they have since survived).

I do not know of any major influx of autos from China.

Thanks! Editing SNAFU. I had Japan, like in several other places on the forum where I used this same point. But China has also invested in robotics and is dominating in products other than automobiles. High tech toys are becoming the sole realm of China. Like this $10,000 mini RC hydraulic excavator! High tech hobby.

I will edit it again.