Honorverse Top Ten Tacticians, Strategists

ThinksMarkedly wrote:I suppose there's some technology that only works in the presence of an active wedge or impeller ring. For example, if FTL gravitic sensors are tied to those, then the missile flies blind in the gravitic spectrum during the ballistic phase. It would still have EM spectrum sensors, but those are limited to light-speed. I don't think the speed itself is the issue, but it may correlate to sensing accuracy. That is, an FTL gravitic sensor can resolve at 62 light-seconds what an EM light-speed sensor can resolve at most at 1 light-second away. That would be the difference between true targets and a tiny dot for the entire enemy's formation.

The gravitic array is not tied to an active wedge or impeller, it is one of the passive sensors used by drones etc. Consider the enormous gravitic array that looks for hyper-space transitions as part of Manticore's defenses; it is not tied to a ship at all.

tlb wrote:The gravitic array is not tied to an active wedge or impeller, it is one of the passive sensors used by drones etc. Consider the enormous gravitic array that looks for hyper-space transitions as part of Manticore's defenses; it is not tied to a ship at all.

No ship, but there's nothing saying those arrays don't have systems sustaining an impeller node or nodes active, even if they aren't organised in a ring form?

By "active systems" I don't mean like "active radar" but more like "powered on."

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Shannon_Foraker wrote:It would be awesome to see Shannon in command. She'd have given Honor a hard time should they have anywhere similar tech levels, with her witchcraft. If she can't beat someone, she can still make a hell of a lot of damage, and Honor would know that.

Shannon is smart enough that she can prepare enough traps for all contingencies. She'll make hay out of straw if necessary.

But she's much better at what she is right now: making those things for those who can figure out even better ways to employ them. So it's not that she wouldn't be good at fleet or ship command (we frankly don't know for sure), it's that she'd be wasted there, especially if she's actually lost.

We actually saw her in command (sorta) in War of Honor in a simmed assault on Trevor's Star. I don't remember the chapter.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Shannon_Foraker wrote:It would be awesome to see Shannon in command. She'd have given Honor a hard time should they have anywhere similar tech levels, with her witchcraft. If she can't beat someone, she can still make a hell of a lot of damage, and Honor would know that.

Shannon is smart enough that she can prepare enough traps for all contingencies. She'll make hay out of straw if necessary.

But she's much better at what she is right now: making those things for those who can figure out even better ways to employ them. So it's not that she wouldn't be good at fleet or ship command (we frankly don't know for sure), it's that she'd be wasted there, especially if she's actually lost.

Shannon_Foraker wrote:We actually saw her in command (sorta) in War of Honor in a simmed assault on Trevor's Star. I don't remember the chapter.

S-ssssay what? Did I miss that? It must have been a very small "sound bite" being that it wasn't heard in the vacuum of space. I simply must find that!

I had wet dreams about Shannon assuming command even after she was sent to Bolthole, by happenstance. Like if she were a passenger aboard a warship and something untoward happened where she had to assume command, to the enemy's chagrin. Much like when Honor had to assume command when Mark Sarnow was injured at Seaford Nine.

I don't care how Shannon has to enjoy command, even if Providence has to place her there.

cthia wrote:

Shannon_Foraker wrote:We actually saw her in command (sorta) in War of Honor in a simmed assault on Trevor's Star. I don't remember the chapter.

S-ssssay what? Did I miss that? It must have been a very small "sound bite" being that it wasn't heard in the vacuum of space. I simply must find that!

War of Honor - Chapter 20.

It's where we got the infodump on their new LACs and the 'triple ripple' anti-LAC tactic. However, the sim only went as far as a LAC on LAC engagement -- so Shannon issued no 'on screen' commands; mostly just observing it play out and then debating with Anders about whether the sim conditions were realistic.

(And she's at Bolthole at this point; actually aboard her then flagship, the new SD(P) Sovereign of Space. The sim is before the war resumes with Operation Thunderbolt)

cthia wrote:

Shannon_Foraker wrote:We actually saw her in command (sorta) in War of Honor in a simmed assault on Trevor's Star. I don't remember the chapter.

S-ssssay what? Did I miss that? It must have been a very small "sound bite" being that it wasn't heard in the vacuum of space. I simply must find that!

Jonathan_S wrote:War of Honor - Chapter 20.

It's where we got the infodump on their new LACs and the 'triple ripple' anti-LAC tactic. However, the sim only went as far as a LAC on LAC engagement -- so Shannon issued no 'on screen' commands; mostly just observing it play out and then debating with Anders about whether the sim conditions were realistic.

(And she's at Bolthole at this point; actually aboard her then flagship, the new SD(P) Sovereign of Space. The sim is before the war resumes with Operation Thunderbolt)

Ah, thanks!

It does make me curious about whether there were, at least, any full-fledged all-out sims created by Shannon off-screen.

We all know about how easy and enlightening Honor's sims were. What if Shannon was first really noticed when she put together an actual sim.

cthia wrote:Ah, thanks!

It does make me curious about whether there were, at least, any full-fledged all-out sims created by Shannon off-screen.

We all know about how easy and enlightening Honor's sims were. What if Shannon was first really noticed when she put together an actual sim.

There must have been, no way around it.

How do you think she came up with the triple-ripple and proved its effectiveness in the first place? She must have gamed everything she was producing, either by being the one using her latest innovations or being the op-force to someone who was using her innovations to figure out how the Alliance would react.

But she's an admiral at this point, running what's probably the single most massive shipyard complex in the Settled Galaxy. She has a lot of responsibilities, so she's probably delegating most of those sims to people in her staff. She would definitely get her hands dirty, though, when and where it mattered.

I reviewed this thread with great interest, because I've always held that once you reach the highest levels in any field, rankings are kind of pointless. Who's the better guitarist, Joe Bonomassa or Peter Frampton? As a kid, I overheard heated discussions between fans of Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire. Was Gustavus Adolphus a better general than George S. Patton or Belisarius?

The only name I want to bring up for consideration is one of the most effective grand strategists in the entire Honorverse saga -- Albrecht Detweiler. You may not like his goals or his methods, but you cannot deny his results.

dscott8 wrote:The only name I want to bring up for consideration is one of the most effective grand strategists in the entire Honorverse saga -- Albrecht Detweiler. You may not like his goals or his methods, but you cannot deny his results.

I'd make a counter argument that while forces he controls have done some nasty direct damage, and been even more destructive indirectly, it is unclear how much of that is a result of any particular acumen on his part.

He effective inherited the long term strategic plan, and the ongoing deep infiltration efforts that gave the MAlign the levers to do things like push Haven towards economic collapse and military expansion. So I don't know that we can give him much credit for the strategic vision of having or using those levers.

The parts we can clearly attribute to him mostly seem to be significant blunders -- where Apollo panicked the MAlign into rushing their endgame instead of pulling back and relying on their long term proven advantages in manipulating things undetectably from behind the scenes. Sure, Oyster Bay did a lot of damage to Manticore, but they came out of it in a stronger position relative to the MAlign because it was part of what convinced Haven to ally with them against whoever had launched such an attack.

(And that's ignoring the fact that he inherited and continued a strategy that is counterproductive to their claimed goals -- and I ignore that because it seems to be based on unstated goals of rubbing Beowulf's face in the Detweilers' victory. Something that wouldn't happen if they'd just gotten the freedom for genetic modifications centuries ago via PR and political manipulation)

dscott8 wrote:I reviewed this thread with great interest, because I've always held that once you reach the highest levels in any field, rankings are kind of pointless.

You are going to have to expound on this, I am not sure I can board your bus at this point. Consider a pool of brain or heart surgeons. I don't think spinning the bottle is how one should choose his surgeon.

dscott8 wrote:Who's the better guitarist, Joe Bonomassa or Peter Frampton? As a kid, I overheard heated discussions between fans of Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire. Was Gustavus Adolphus a better general than George S. Patton or Belisarius?

Of course, Jimi Hendrix is the very best guitarist overall. Plus he was a pioneer showcasing pioneering technology. Playing behind his back and with his teeth. And those shreds!

It is the same with surgeons. "He is the only one who can perform his innovative technique." Didn't one of Honor's tactics lead to FTL technology? So, I can't understand why you would say that rankings within a field are pointless, lest I don't understand you. Clarification?

dscott8 wrote:The only name I want to bring up for consideration is one of the most effective grand strategists in the entire Honorverse saga -- Albrecht Detweiler. You may not like his goals or his methods, but you cannot deny his results.

My niece agrees with you about placing the Detweilers on the list, she argued that point to the college students who disagreed with Leonard's inclusion.