Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brigade XO and 25 guests

Did the MBS corner the market on trade?

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:12 am

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6745
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

cthia wrote:A single LAC or even a few of them certainly couldn't do it. Remember, they are limited by their inability to recharge the capacitators during battle. Their shots are limited.

Though they presumably don't need to power their ECM or PDCLs, since the transiting ships can't engage them with missiles. (But they would need their wedge and bow-wall up).

That'll let them divert more power to the graser than during normal combat conditions. (Plus it's not a total inability to recharge the capacitors during normal combat - they just average a far slower recharge since peak usage, such as when they fire the graser, or all their PDLCs engage, keeps exceeding the full output of the fission plant. So during the highest intensity they'll draw the capacitor down, but during moments when they're maneuvering and not having to fire their defensive weapons the charge level would start to build back up again)


But still, I totally agree a single LAC wouldn't be an adequate defense for a wormhole.
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:35 am

ThinksMarkedly
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:39 am

cthia wrote:TM, rereading that exchange I think we both misunderstood each other. I intended to say the RMN no longer needs to defend against anything coming through from Beowulf. Certainly, Beowulf needs to defend their side of it. But if something DOES get through, what can they do? In fact, if Beowulf's side is taken without a whisper, it'd be better for the Manties if the enemy WOULD tip their hand and come thru before some unwitting ship were to transit into the gorilla's jaws.


That might very well be.

If all the termini are sufficiently defended, the junction doesn't need to be geared up to defend against a transit. There's no way for an attacker to get ahold of a terminus before at least one ship can come through with warning that an attack is in progress and raise Case Zulu. Therefore, it only needs to defend against a local attack.

But that's now, after Beowulf Republic's independence. Now that they can actually install Mk40 system defence missiles and Mycroft, plus build a few modern ships. Before that, the BSDF was too weak to hold against a determined force. If Vice Admiral Holmon-Sanders had been alone with the BDSF First Fleet (18 ships? 24?), she shouldn't have stopped Tsang from attempting to transit.

[quote[Blocking the junction from the Beowulf side is what I don't think the RMN gave enough thought. Tsang could have changed her mission on the fly IF her mission was dependent upon contact with the DB. Also dependent, of course, upon Tsang's force being the true fist of the gorilla, since she had time to receive critical new toys. That is what I meant by Beowulf being held at gunpoint by a raving lunatic who was already capable of the likes of Case Bucaneer, Parthian Shot, and blasting warships with their wedges down; considering how the gorilla's rage was already at critical over the infidelity of his wife who was clearly sleeping with the enemy.[/quote]

I think sending 60 SD(P)s under Adm. Truman is giving the Beowulf side sufficient thought. Truman was perfectly capable of defending the Sigma Draconis system against any attack by Tsang or any conventional attack the SLN could mount.

You're still getting the timeline wrong: at this point, Beowulf had not done anything overt against the League. The only thing they'd done -- and this is a speculation -- is to advise Manticore that Filareta was coming. Manticore did reveal they had a source when they told the League they knew Filareta was coming, but they didn't reveal who the source was. Even if the League bureaucrats and SLN Admiralty thought the leak came from Beowulf, they had no way to prove it or that the Beowulf government was complicit. Independence had not been discussed yet, so there was also no way to know if the Beowulf population would choose. Therefore, a preemptive attack against a loyal, founding member of the League, Core world with huge industry, commerce and influence, is inconceivable.

From the SL. The MAlign is a different story.

In fact, that DB could have activated potential orders to Tsang to go ahead and sterilize Beowulf. Or simply prompted an insane Tsang to go ahead and do it anyway. IOW, that DB could have set in motion some very nasty contingency plans.

And, if Tsang's force had been able to overcome her opposition, and shut down the Beowulf side, then Beowulf would have been at her mercy, or lack thereof. It turned out somewhat OK in the end, barring the KARMA that came home to roost. But, I suspect in one of Honor's advanced classes on Saganami, releasing that Dispatch Boat will be shown as a risk that shouldn't have been taken.


Tsang was under the sights of Adm. Truman, within Truman's range but not vice-versa. There was no way that Tsang could have shut down the Beowulf terminus of the wormhole. No way. Tsang only had two choices and two choices only: hyper out or die. The only variation would be to take a parting shot at the BSDF by flushing her externally-mounted pods before hypering out.

She could drop out of hyperspace and redirect against Beowulf, dog-legging. So did Truman send some ships to the inner system as an insurance against that? We don't know either way, but it Truman may have done exactly that. So if Tsang arrives at the hyperlimit ahead of the GA detachment, she can launch against targets. Then die, because she can't hyper out before the detachment arrives.

And at this point, Beowulf probably already had the tug defences that were used during Operation Fabius. All GA and leaning nations probably implemented that after the Yawata Strike. So she'd die for nothing (though she couldn't know that).

Finally, I agree with you that tactically, allowing the D.B. through was a risk. But there are two more factors to consider: first, that the disruption in traffic through the wormhole is a signal in itself to Tsang. She doesn't need the D.B. to know something is going on the Manticore side. Every ship transiting is going to be blasting the airwaves with the news. And if no ships transit, that is itself a message. So the D.B. was just an added risk, since it could carry extra information.

Second, and most importantly, it was not a military decision. It was a political one.
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:47 am

ThinksMarkedly
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:39 am

Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:Indeed. That part about the LACs should have been parenthesized. It was more for MY edification, and simply a throwaway statement.
One LAC would have a hard time holding a wormhole against transiting SDs. If the SDs came in a mass transit it wouldn't have a prayer of doing so.


Indeed, but please read my saying that an LAC could hold the wormhole in the contact that I put it. I was talking about how a cruiser squadron in Spindle held against 73 SDs by accurately destroying 26 in one wave, from 60 million km out, using missile pods. Then I argued that the RMN could have scaled down missile control to CLs, DDs, FFs, or LACs. If that had happened, an LAC could control sufficient missiles from nearby ready pods to obliterate a mass transit of SDs before those could raise their wedges. Those missiles would need to fire the moment they're launched -- that is, a mine.

I don't think this could actually be done. It would be recklessly risky. If the mass-transited ships could get their wedges up, then the number of missiles that need to be fired and controlled goes up dramatically. And at short range, the missiles are moving so slow that the PDs will be much more effective.

On the other hand, a mass transit locks down the wormhole for 18 hours. That means no reinforcements. That gives the defenders time to send ships back to retake it.
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:51 am

ThinksMarkedly
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:39 am

Jonathan_S wrote:But even at 50g a fort can self-relocated the 7 light-hours from the Junction to Manticore in about 70 hours (reaching a top speed around 0.2c before starting to slow again). That's only 3 days; not an entire week.


That assumes it's ready to move on a moment's notice. An installation that isn't expected to be of help tactically isn't likely to be ready to do that. Therefore, you can add a lot of hours to their actual movement, probably an entire day.
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:15 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 12894
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:But even at 50g a fort can self-relocated the 7 light-hours from the Junction to Manticore in about 70 hours (reaching a top speed around 0.2c before starting to slow again). That's only 3 days; not an entire week.


That assumes it's ready to move on a moment's notice. An installation that isn't expected to be of help tactically isn't likely to be ready to do that. Therefore, you can add a lot of hours to their actual movement, probably an entire day.

The Forts are forever ready to move in a well choreographed dance to rotate the fresh stock during battle.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:22 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 12894
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:TM, rereading that exchange I think we both misunderstood each other. I intended to say the RMN no longer needs to defend against anything coming through from Beowulf. Certainly, Beowulf needs to defend their side of it. But if something DOES get through, what can they do? In fact, if Beowulf's side is taken without a whisper, it'd be better for the Manties if the enemy WOULD tip their hand and come thru before some unwitting ship were to transit into the gorilla's jaws.


That might very well be.

If all the termini are sufficiently defended, the junction doesn't need to be geared up to defend against a transit. There's no way for an attacker to get ahold of a terminus before at least one ship can come through with warning that an attack is in progress and raise Case Zulu. Therefore, it only needs to defend against a local attack.

But that's now, after Beowulf Republic's independence. Now that they can actually install Mk40 system defence missiles and Mycroft, plus build a few modern ships. Before that, the BSDF was too weak to hold against a determined force. If Vice Admiral Holmon-Sanders had been alone with the BDSF First Fleet (18 ships? 24?), she shouldn't have stopped Tsang from attempting to transit.

Blocking the junction from the Beowulf side is what I don't think the RMN gave enough thought. Tsang could have changed her mission on the fly IF her mission was dependent upon contact with the DB. Also dependent, of course, upon Tsang's force being the true fist of the gorilla, since she had time to receive critical new toys. That is what I meant by Beowulf being held at gunpoint by a raving lunatic who was already capable of the likes of Case Bucaneer, Parthian Shot, and blasting warships with their wedges down; considering how the gorilla's rage was already at critical over the infidelity of his wife who was clearly sleeping with the enemy.


I think sending 60 SD(P)s under Adm. Truman is giving the Beowulf side sufficient thought. Truman was perfectly capable of defending the Sigma Draconis system against any attack by Tsang or any conventional attack the SLN could mount.

You're still getting the timeline wrong: at this point, Beowulf had not done anything overt against the League. The only thing they'd done -- and this is a speculation -- is to advise Manticore that Filareta was coming. Manticore did reveal they had a source when they told the League they knew Filareta was coming, but they didn't reveal who the source was. Even if the League bureaucrats and SLN Admiralty thought the leak came from Beowulf, they had no way to prove it or that the Beowulf government was complicit. Independence had not been discussed yet, so there was also no way to know if the Beowulf population would choose. Therefore, a preemptive attack against a loyal, founding member of the League, Core world with huge industry, commerce and influence, is inconceivable.

From the SL. The MAlign is a different story.

In fact, that DB could have activated potential orders to Tsang to go ahead and sterilize Beowulf. Or simply prompted an insane Tsang to go ahead and do it anyway. IOW, that DB could have set in motion some very nasty contingency plans.

And, if Tsang's force had been able to overcome her opposition, and shut down the Beowulf side, then Beowulf would have been at her mercy, or lack thereof. It turned out somewhat OK in the end, barring the KARMA that came home to roost. But, I suspect in one of Honor's advanced classes on Saganami, releasing that Dispatch Boat will be shown as a risk that shouldn't have been taken.


Tsang was under the sights of Adm. Truman, within Truman's range but not vice-versa. There was no way that Tsang could have shut down the Beowulf terminus of the wormhole. No way. Tsang only had two choices and two choices only: hyper out or die. The only variation would be to take a parting shot at the BSDF by flushing her externally-mounted pods before hypering out.

She could drop out of hyperspace and redirect against Beowulf, dog-legging. So did Truman send some ships to the inner system as an insurance against that? We don't know either way, but it Truman may have done exactly that. So if Tsang arrives at the hyperlimit ahead of the GA detachment, she can launch against targets. Then die, because she can't hyper out before the detachment arrives.

And at this point, Beowulf probably already had the tug defences that were used during Operation Fabius. All GA and leaning nations probably implemented that after the Yawata Strike. So she'd die for nothing (though she couldn't know that).

Finally, I agree with you that tactically, allowing the D.B. through was a risk. But there are two more factors to consider: first, that the disruption in traffic through the wormhole is a signal in itself to Tsang. She doesn't need the D.B. to know something is going on the Manticore side. Every ship transiting is going to be blasting the airwaves with the news. And if no ships transit, that is itself a message. So the D.B. was just an added risk, since it could carry extra information.

Second, and most importantly, it was not a military decision. It was a political one.

Unless Tsang had Forakerian-like surprises and was the real hammer.

You're probably right. But Tsang could have flushed everything she had at the planet (Parthian Shot?) on the way out, which is part of the entire gist of my argument in the Karma thread that Tsang should have been allowed to transit. Beowulf's duty is to the lives of their own planet, first, founding second.

Your notion of whether Truman prepositioned ships between Tsang and Beowulf is interesting. Even so, those ships could only react in vengeance to a mass launch at the planet. Little consolation to Beowulf's dead. That IS what Parthian Shot is all about. Although no planet deserved it, Beowulf certainly came a lot closer to it than any.

What else did Beowulf NEED to do wrong, other than treason, to awaken the rage of an insane gorilla?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:25 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 12894
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:A single LAC or even a few of them certainly couldn't do it. Remember, they are limited by their inability to recharge the capacitators during battle. Their shots are limited.

Though they presumably don't need to power their ECM or PDCLs, since the transiting ships can't engage them with missiles. (But they would need their wedge and bow-wall up).

That'll let them divert more power to the graser than during normal combat conditions. (Plus it's not a total inability to recharge the capacitors during normal combat - they just average a far slower recharge since peak usage, such as when they fire the graser, or all their PDLCs engage, keeps exceeding the full output of the fission plant. So during the highest intensity they'll draw the capacitor down, but during moments when they're maneuvering and not having to fire their defensive weapons the charge level would start to build back up again)


But still, I totally agree a single LAC wouldn't be an adequate defense for a wormhole.

That answered a follow up question, somewhat, about the time it takes to recharge. By your post, a lot faster than I thought.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:20 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:39 am

cthia wrote:The Forts are forever ready to move in a well choreographed dance to rotate the fresh stock during battle.


Evasive manoeuvres and repositioning for a good shot is quite different from a 70-hour trip at max accel. And even then, not all forts are ready for this at all times. Given that there's sufficient warning from any of the termini and from local space, only a few of the forts have to be ready for battle.

cthia wrote:Unless Tsang had Forakerian-like surprises and was the real hammer.


That's irrelevant.

I don't mean that having a game-changer weapon is irrelevant. If Tsang did have something, she could indeed do a lot of damage, even turn the tables.

I meant that her possession or not of such a weapon is irrelevant in the calculation. As I said above, Tsang would have known on way or another that the attack started. The D.B. wasn't necessary. So if she had a weapon, she'd use it, whether the D.B. had transited or not. So allowing it to transit does not change the outcome. But it might lure her into thinking that the Manties are unprepared for her.

The only way to prevent that would be to make sure no one at the Junction knew that an attack was happening. The RMN and Astro Control could probably keep a lid on that for at most one hour, the time it takes a blabber-mouth ship to come from Manticore-A to the Junction via a dog-leg course around the RZ.

And for all we know, they did just that.

You're probably right. But Tsang could have flushed everything she had at the planet (Parthian Shot?) on the way out, which is part of the entire gist of my argument in the Karma thread that Tsang should have been allowed to transit. Beowulf's duty is to the lives of their own planet, first, founding second.


No, she couldn't, not from where she was. We don't know the exact distance, but she was multiple light-hours away from either planet in the Sigma Draconis system. We know that because wormholes are never closer than 1 light-hour to the primary they're associated with. She could fire her missiles, but those would take the better part of a day to arrive. And this is assuming the interlocks protecting against Dutchman missiles can be disabled, that their sensors in their cones won't be too ablated by a trip of 4+ billion km, and that their internal capacitors can last for 15-20 hours to light up the second stage.

As I said, she could into hyper, drop out, reorient to Beowulf and go back into hyper, for this attack. But this is no longer an action taken on a moment of anger. This is premeditated. She wouldn't do it without orders and there were no orders to that effect -- the SLN hadn't ordered Buccaneer and Parthian Shot yet and if they had, the BSDF would have likely known so. Morever, as I said, there the wormhole defenders would have time to catch up with her; plus a portion of the BSDF would have been in the inner system, possibly in position to intercept the missiles, and the tugs would have been ready.

And finally, again, the D.B. is irrelevant. If she was going to do this, she would do it either way. If the Beowulfan government thought this was a risk, the best way to mitigate it would be to let Tsang actually expend her ships on the Junction forts, like you said. Which would have meant allowing the D.B. to come through to pretend that the RMN wasn't ready. The problem is that this does put some RMN lives at risk, as there's a chance some transiting ships survive to fire at the forts, not to mention all the Solarian lives that would be lost. Tactically it might be good, bot politically it's not, since it would inflate the Solarian public opinion against the Manticoran butchers (never mind the SL leadership should have known a contested wormhole transit was sucide).

Your notion of whether Truman prepositioned ships between Tsang and Beowulf is interesting. Even so, those ships could only react in vengeance to a mass launch at the planet. Little consolation to Beowulf's dead. That IS what Parthian Shot is all about. Although no planet deserved it, Beowulf certainly came a lot closer to it than any.

What else did Beowulf NEED to do wrong, other than treason, to awaken the rage of an insane gorilla?


I don't think Truman prepositioned ships between TF 11.6 and the inner system. She was between TF 11.6 and the terminus. What I meant is that once Tsang hypers out, the BSDF First Fleet and a portion of Truman's ships (say, 20) should go into the inner system for defence. If Tsang does change her mind, she dies.

Even if she does commit suicide-by-cop, her mass launch at the planets is from the hyper limit, 200 million km away. There's sufficient time to get the tugs up and in blocking position to protect infrastructure. The defending ships also have enough time to accelerate into the missiles and fire CMs before those missiles bring up their second-stage wedges.

And neither do I think she'd do that -- premeditated genocide -- nor that her officers would go allow her to do it. The SLN and SL bureaucracy had rationalised the targetting of infrastructure, but I don't think they could have rationalised away shooting directly at the planet.
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:46 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 12894
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:The Forts are forever ready to move in a well choreographed dance to rotate the fresh stock during battle.


Evasive manoeuvres and repositioning for a good shot is quite different from a 70-hour trip at max accel. And even then, not all forts are ready for this at all times. Given that there's sufficient warning from any of the termini and from local space, only a few of the forts have to be ready for battle.

cthia wrote:Unless Tsang had Forakerian-like surprises and was the real hammer.


That's irrelevant.

I don't mean that having a game-changer weapon is irrelevant. If Tsang did have something, she could indeed do a lot of damage, even turn the tables.

I meant that her possession or not of such a weapon is irrelevant in the calculation. As I said above, Tsang would have known on way or another that the attack started. The D.B. wasn't necessary. So if she had a weapon, she'd use it, whether the D.B. had transited or not. So allowing it to transit does not change the outcome. But it might lure her into thinking that the Manties are unprepared for her.

The only way to prevent that would be to make sure no one at the Junction knew that an attack was happening. The RMN and Astro Control could probably keep a lid on that for at most one hour, the time it takes a blabber-mouth ship to come from Manticore-A to the Junction via a dog-leg course around the RZ.

And for all we know, they did just that.

You're probably right. But Tsang could have flushed everything she had at the planet (Parthian Shot?) on the way out, which is part of the entire gist of my argument in the Karma thread that Tsang should have been allowed to transit. Beowulf's duty is to the lives of their own planet, first, founding second.


No, she couldn't, not from where she was. We don't know the exact distance, but she was multiple light-hours away from either planet in the Sigma Draconis system. We know that because wormholes are never closer than 1 light-hour to the primary they're associated with. She could fire her missiles, but those would take the better part of a day to arrive. And this is assuming the interlocks protecting against Dutchman missiles can be disabled, that their sensors in their cones won't be too ablated by a trip of 4+ billion km, and that their internal capacitors can last for 15-20 hours to light up the second stage.

As I said, she could into hyper, drop out, reorient to Beowulf and go back into hyper, for this attack. But this is no longer an action taken on a moment of anger. This is premeditated. She wouldn't do it without orders and there were no orders to that effect -- the SLN hadn't ordered Buccaneer and Parthian Shot yet and if they had, the BSDF would have likely known so. Morever, as I said, there the wormhole defenders would have time to catch up with her; plus a portion of the BSDF would have been in the inner system, possibly in position to intercept the missiles, and the tugs would have been ready.

And finally, again, the D.B. is irrelevant. If she was going to do this, she would do it either way. If the Beowulfan government thought this was a risk, the best way to mitigate it would be to let Tsang actually expend her ships on the Junction forts, like you said. Which would have meant allowing the D.B. to come through to pretend that the RMN wasn't ready. The problem is that this does put some RMN lives at risk, as there's a chance some transiting ships survive to fire at the forts, not to mention all the Solarian lives that would be lost. Tactically it might be good, bot politically it's not, since it would inflate the Solarian public opinion against the Manticoran butchers (never mind the SL leadership should have known a contested wormhole transit was sucide).

Your notion of whether Truman prepositioned ships between Tsang and Beowulf is interesting. Even so, those ships could only react in vengeance to a mass launch at the planet. Little consolation to Beowulf's dead. That IS what Parthian Shot is all about. Although no planet deserved it, Beowulf certainly came a lot closer to it than any.

What else did Beowulf NEED to do wrong, other than treason, to awaken the rage of an insane gorilla?


I don't think Truman prepositioned ships between TF 11.6 and the inner system. She was between TF 11.6 and the terminus. What I meant is that once Tsang hypers out, the BSDF First Fleet and a portion of Truman's ships (say, 20) should go into the inner system for defence. If Tsang does change her mind, she dies.

Even if she does commit suicide-by-cop, her mass launch at the planets is from the hyper limit, 200 million km away. There's sufficient time to get the tugs up and in blocking position to protect infrastructure. The defending ships also have enough time to accelerate into the missiles and fire CMs before those missiles bring up their second-stage wedges.

And neither do I think she'd do that -- premeditated genocide -- nor that her officers would go allow her to do it. The SLN and SL bureaucracy had rationalised the targetting of infrastructure, but I don't think they could have rationalised away shooting directly at the planet.


I was referring to the fact that Forts rotate during battle to ensure the damaged Forts are not on the front line.

I don't think Tsang would have done it either. Actually, poor Tsang is still in shock and hasn't completely recovered from "some scene straight out of a sci-fi novel," as she most likely will put it. As soon as she recovers from the shock.

My point is that the possibility should have been allowed for. All through storyline, and in this battle as well, each man in the hot seat, D'Orville on this occasion, has to go out to meet the enemy because you don't know, can't know, what the lunatic will do.

I wasn't sure in the very least about the geometry of the battle. Thanks for the description.

You brought up a point I always wondered about. I'm surprised that any ships other than warships are allowed to use the junction during war. More so in this case. Ships are ordered to scatter during a war. Going thru the junction when an enemy force is on the other side seems reckless.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Did the MBS corner the market on trade?
Post by Brigade XO   » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:06 pm

Brigade XO
Admiral

Posts: 2605
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:31 am
Location: KY

A single RMN LAC with anti-capital ship missiles would not be posted to defend a lane of the Junction from an SD. That's the job of the forts and the minefields liberaly spread around each lane (in and out- those are "only" navigation channels, if nothing is outbound, something could try comming inbound through it---not wise but possible).

We don't actualy know what Beowulf and the terminus corporation has around the terminus. Given such things as the long build-up and then the war with PRH, it is quite possible that Beowulf made substantial investments in defences including forts and minefields as if Manticore falls, Beowulf could be a target. Or if not the Beowulf system, the terminus and it would take a while to get SLN help

What makes up the Manticore Merchant Marine has been working at this for a long time. Apparently they tend to be competitive, provide excelent service and now have a very wide set of networks for commerical operations in Freight Brokerage. They also have a Navy which is (and has been ) serious about commerce protection- both it's own and anybody elces which moves within it's patrol and sphear of influence. It's been a profitable business and the companies have both expanded and numbers of companies have grown. Lots and lots of owner-operators and two or a few. So they go all sorts of places. They also investigate and follow-up on new business leads. Essentialy they have become part of the vast distribution systems in intersteller commerce and are typicaly (probably) also carrying a lot of stuff even just point-to-point to make money with any unbooked space in those massive hulls.
Lacoon I very basicly did so much more than pulled a lot of ships off of standard or regular runs. It also snipped thousands of brief interchange options because all those ships would not be dropping off shipments that arrived (from whever) at point G and would then sit in warehouse till a ship came though (scheuled or unscheduled) to go to - eventualy to point M.
ALL that carrying capasity was just GONE. Even if you had a SLN flagged (or other independent) ship going from where you made something to point J, the connection from J to wherever was not comming. Really really quickly all the remaining capaisity on non-MMM ships was going to be booked and then the "wheels start to stop"
Top

Return to Honorverse