Impeachment now certain

Eyal wrote:

smr wrote: Now, Pelosi will not send over the Articles of Impeachment? I wonder why?

She wants some assurance it won't turn into a show exoneration.

Was not this issue critical to National Security according to Demoncrats?

Cite? As I recall the argument was that the holding up the aid was an issue of national security, not the impeachment itself. Since the administration released the aid when the affair came to light, there's no pressing national security issue.

Furthermore, if there was, it makes it even more imperative to insist the trial be carried out properly.

Their is a treaty between the US and Ukraine. This articles allows for cooperation between America and Ukraine on corruption. So reread the transcript and apply the treaty to the transcript. Now you know why they dropped all those charges that would have put Trump out of office. The Demoncrats planted a trap that Trump knew about. So Trump prepared his defenses and then set off the trap at his time and opportunity of choosing.

Even if the treaty does say that (which I don't take for a given but will assume for the sake of argument) that doesn't mean Trump can legitimize any action by calling it a fight against corruption. Testimony indicates Trump was interested only in the fact of an investigation, and specifically ensuring it was done publicly while tying the Bidens to it. He was utterly uninterested in the matter until about the time Biden announced his candidacy, nor is there any indication AFAIK he was or is interested in any other aspects or issues of corruption in the Ukraine (frankly, the way Trump comes off talking about corruption is like he heard that it's a bad thing so he'll argue he's fighting against it but doesn't actually comprehend what it is).
Furthermore, there is no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the Bidens in the first place; the investigation against Burisma had been closed by the time the US and the EU demanded Shokin's removal and Hunter Biden wasn't even working for the company at the time of the investigated issues.

Why did the 1st whistler blower not testify?

Why did the 2nd whistler blower not testify?

Why should they testify? What information do you think they has to add?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:The key witness has just announced that he will defy any subpoena:

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story ... 759398001/

Well, it's too bad the Trump Administration, backed by the GOP, has established you can ignore Congressional subpoenas then, ins't it.

And in what way is Biden a key witness? When you come down to it, Biden's actions are not really relevant at all - Trump is the one on trial here, not him. Had Trump gone through channels via the DOJ, FBI and State Department, rather than trying to bypass those agencies with private citizens, and had he not given every indication he was trying to get the investigation opened as a political gambit, then you might have a leg to stand on. As it is...

Imagine I'm a police officer who really hates you and is convinced you're selling drugs. I break into your house and plant drugs inside. I'm caught and stand trial, and then it turns out that you really are selling drugs. That doesn't in any way absolve me of my crimes and if my defense attorney asked you to testify, it would probably be disallowed on grounds of relevance.

And in any event, Biden's actions would be irrelevant to the second article of impeachment.

The only reason the GOP want Biden as a witness is to muddy the waters. And, judging by his later clarifying statements, I assume he would comply with a subpoena if a court ruled he should.

I remain astonished that Trump is being persecuted for encouraging a foreign government to investigate a US citizen who abused his influence (as Vice President) to extort money from a foreign government as a preecondition for financial aid.

Dilandu must be laughing their ass off.

Where the hell did you pull that from all of a sudden?

smr wrote:Annachie:

So finding out the truth is not important only getting Trump by hook or crook is important. Let's put this through the Annachie 2000 Translator. Orange man bad...kill Orangeman...Kill his Supporters.

Once again, Trump is the one on trial here, not anyone else. See my reply above.

Annachie appears extremely intelligent, logical, and rational except when it comes to Trump. Then this individual turns into a Zombie and loses his freaking mind. Remind me again what law has Trump broken? I know that is why Trump is the 1st President ever to have an article of Impeachment voted and passed with "No Criminal Charges." That is a 1st in American History!

For one thing, one of the charges includes bribery, which is a . Furthermore, "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not limited to actual crimes. the "high" part doesn't refer to serious crimes; it includes things which are only crimes when they're done by the "high", that is public officials, such as abuse of office or plain incompetence (the term comes from Emglish law at the time, and there's a case where someone was found guilty under that clause for failing to moor a boat properly).

Where are the original whistle blowers? Hiding because their scared of being strung up from the highest tree in the land and hung.

Given that Trump went "who will rid me on this burdensome priest" on the first whistleblower and has now apparently publicly exposed him, it wouldn't be an unfounded fear.

December 27: Hunter Biden made a 146 Million dollars in a year from Ukraine. This coming from his court records and the Judge determining how much money he has to pay in child support. I wonder why he got all this money...could it be because his name is .....Biden.

Which is not illegal and, since he's not a government official, that's the standard he's held to. And it would be rich for this particular administration and its supporters to come out against nepotism.

Annachie wrote:He ripped of a charity for children with cancer! Fair notice. One month ago one of my teenage daughters was diagnosed with cancer.

May she heal quickly and fully.

n7axw wrote:Just a few comments... I am a Christian and have sought to live out my faith for a lifetime... That has been the fountain out of which my liberal political beliefs flow... love of God love of neighbor, stewardship of personal resources and the earth, welcoming the stranger, care of the poor, etc.

I don't want to diss conservatives. There are some very positive things that conservativism has stood for... rule of law, love of country, individual charity and much more.

I don't understand how any of this can go with supporting Donald Trump. When I think Trump, I think lack of respect for John McCain whose service to his country deserves better. I think of kids in cages on the border. I think of that gold star dad being dissed. Or I think of him bragging about abusing women, walking in on teen age girls at the Miss Universe pageant.

Frankly, the man is not a conservative, he is criminal. Why do I say that? Oh, how about bribery, fraud, use of bankruptcy laws to avoid honest debt he could have repaid out of his own resources, money laundering obstruction of Congress, obstruction of Mueller probe and much more. Note how many of principled conservatives have disassociated themselves from the Republican Party over this.

As for impeachment, you do realize that the Democrats held off on that as long as they could. It should also be apparent that the impeachment articles were a small sliver of all of the things for which he could have been impeached. Had all of the other stuff been brought into it, we'd never get through it.

My dear conservative friends, would you please pick an honest man of whom we may all be proud to represent you? Do it for yourselves.You owe it to me and the country.

In what is getting to be a long lifetime, there have only two presidents I couldn't respect... Nixon and Trump. And Trump makes Nixon look like a Sunday school kid.

Are you really so into your opposition to liberalism that you will defend Trump no matter what he does? He believes that, you know. He thinks that he could shoot someone in Central Park and never lose a vote.

If you disagree with me, that is ok. But I am challenging you to think and think hard. Think of your own values and ask yourselves if Donald J Trump really represents what you truly believe.

Don

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n7axw wrote:Just a few comments... snip

If you disagree with me, that is ok. But I am challenging you to think and think hard. Think of your own values and ask yourselves if Donald J Trump really represents what you truly believe.

Don

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:

n7axw wrote:Just a few comments... I am a Christian and have sought to live out my faith for a lifetime... That has been the fountain out of which my liberal political beliefs flow... love of God love of neighbor, stewardship of personal resources and the earth, welcoming the stranger, care of the poor, etc.

I don't want to diss conservatives. There are some very positive things that conservativism has stood for... rule of law, love of country, individual charity and much more.

I don't understand how any of this can go with supporting Donald Trump. When I think Trump, I think lack of respect for John McCain whose service to his country deserves better. I think of kids in cages on the border. I think of that gold star dad being dissed. Or I think of him bragging about abusing women, walking in on teen age girls at the Miss Universe pageant.

Frankly, the man is not a conservative, he is criminal. Why do I say that? Oh, how about bribery, fraud, use of bankruptcy laws to avoid honest debt he could have repaid out of his own resources, money laundering obstruction of Congress, obstruction of Mueller probe and much more. Note how many of principled conservatives have disassociated themselves from the Republican Party over this.

As for impeachment, you do realize that the Democrats held off on that as long as they could. It should also be apparent that the impeachment articles were a small sliver of all of the things for which he could have been impeached. Had all of the other stuff been brought into it, we'd never get through it.

My dear conservative friends, would you please pick an honest man of whom we may all be proud to represent you? Do it for yourselves.You owe it to me and the country.

In what is getting to be a long lifetime, there have only two presidents I couldn't respect... Nixon and Trump. And Trump makes Nixon look like a Sunday school kid.

Are you really so into your opposition to liberalism that you will defend Trump no matter what he does? He believes that, you know. He thinks that he could shoot someone in Central Park and never lose a vote.

If you disagree with me, that is ok. But I am challenging you to think and think hard. Think of your own values and ask yourselves if Donald J Trump really represents what you truly believe.

Don

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Have you talked to Senator McCain's first wife about Senator McCain's habitual philandering? It certainly adds an interesting perspective on why Senator McCain was even contemplating accepting the briefcase full of untracable cash from Keating Savings and Loan.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
It isn't illegal for Hunter Biden to collect millions from a Ukrainian energy company for alleged expertise that he does not have.
It is illegal for Vice President Biden to extort a job for his cocaine addicted son from the Ukrainias in return for US aid.

PeterZ wrote:
President Trump has done nothing to deserve being removed from office. I'll vote for him again fully cognizant of his foibles and I'll do so gladly. The alternatives are socialists and statists who want to have greater secular authority limiting how I choose to live my life in accordance to my faith and corrupt hacks who use their authority to enrich themselves. Anyone BUT Trump will have the equally corrupt media running interference for whatever illegalities they choose to engage in.

President Trump is the ONLY politician I know can't get away with any illegalities. Had he committed such crimes, he would have already been removed from office. As it stands, he was impeached for not complying with a subpoena. The recourse for that is to go to court and have the court enforce the subpoena. And abuse of power? Seriously?!? That charge was complete BS and tantamount to impeaching because of policy differences.

Had he committed anything illegal, those charges would have been brought against him and not the sorry excuses for what he was actually impeached for. Sorry, Don, but I ask you to evaluate what the Democrats have done in accordance with your values. If you can live with the FBI FISA abuses, continued lies about Russia collusion and the absolute dehumanization of anyone that disagrees with Democrat orthodoxy, then please evaluate just what you actually believe in. Because any government and establishment media that gets away with such abuses against the President can and WILL get away with doing the same things against we, the people. Once they know they can get away with that, they will use it on whomever they disagree with. When that happens, there does our liberty and the ability to live our lives in the service to whatever God we devote our souls to.