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Siddarmark Situation

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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:51 pm

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phillies wrote:Sandaria didn't seem to have the needed acceptance of technology. Also, suborning OWL requires suborning Nahrman in the AI environment, which seems unlikely.
Dilandu wrote:
This depend on what level is the supposed sub-routines operates. If the original data is compromised on SNARC's - i.e. they are ordered to edit the footage - then Nahrman would not notice anything until he would run into some heavy contradiction.

Unless OWL can create a class knowledge that Nahrman can "not know". Effectively information that he knows is there but cannot acknowledge or use in any way without direct approval from OWL.
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by Randomiser   » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:15 am

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PeterZ wrote:I can't get over the thought that SOMETHING weird happened.

My thought is that the SSK may just have something to do with this. Assuming Schueler did lasso the SSK into his overarching plan after Khody's death, he might have given them some sorts of over ride for Terran Federation computer systems. If so, then Sandaria Ghatfryd had more than enough time to suborn OWL when she was first confined to Nimue's Cave upon learning of Nimue Alban's mission. That means Sandaria could have compromised OWL's reports regarding anything that involves her activities to further Schueler's plan as Sandaria saw it.

I say Sandaria just because I doubt Nynian is a good enough actress to pull off marrying Merlin and conspiring behind his back. If she did do that, then achieving Schueler's goals are not mutually exclusive of achieving Merlin's and the Inner Circle's goals.

With OWL's help the SSK can easily implement Schueler's Plan or more likely hide their involvement in executing that plan for their patron.


Leaving aside the fact that putting an override into a military computer as standard is the stupidest idea I ever heard of - you try to make them as UN-hackable as possible, ....

Sandaria, who apparently has never seen a computer in her life, has to employ a device OWL can't detect or a technique the SSK have successfully preserved, without having any need for it, for Hundreds of years. If it's an SSK hack, Nynian has to know about the method. Impossible that the Reverend mother, esp one like Nynian, doesn't know about it, when her current deputy does. So it means Nynian is deceiving and betraying the whole IC including her husband. It also means she went through the whole war without saying to Merlin, 'I know this little trick with Federation military computers. Any chance you could adapt it to hack the Temple?' I just don't think it is compatible with Nynian as portrayed in the past however many books.

So the whole thing sounds deeply unlikely to me.
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:04 am

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Not a hack. Schueler provided an access code that superseded Nimue's. Sandaria then coopted OWL to execute the plan Schueler tasked the SSK to perform as she believed it should be. In this scenario Nynian has directed the SSK to be guided by Merlin's Inner Circle. Sandaria disagrees but recognizes Nynian will not be persuaded that the CoGA needs to be much more thoroughly discredited than the IC is willing go. In short, Sandaria believes delaying Schueler's task for any reason is unacceptable.

If the SSK has the true Testimony of Schueler but NOT the visitation imagery, coopting OWL to create that imagery is something I can see her doing.
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by MantiMerchie   » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:35 am

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Other than a couple controls for a couple of pumps, yes. Or rather yes at the operating level.
I'd have to see what non electrical controls used to exist for the main feed pump and condensate pumps.
The Liberty ships can operate their plant with no electricity but that's only 450 psi and I think no superheat.
Peter
SilverbladeTE wrote:question:

do high pressure boilers, like iirc, 550 PSI and more is that right?, require technology that's IMPOSSIBLE without electricity?

from what I recall Germans had 750 PSI boilers by 1930s but they had major problems with reliability etc

wondering if the Inner Circle could develop such things?

~~~~~~
and machining such large turbines is a major *pain*


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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:51 am

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PeterZ wrote:Not a hack. Schueler provided an access code that superseded Nimue's. Sandaria then coopted OWL to execute the plan Schueler tasked the SSK to perform as she believed it should be. In this scenario Nynian has directed the SSK to be guided by Merlin's Inner Circle. Sandaria disagrees but recognizes Nynian will not be persuaded that the CoGA needs to be much more thoroughly discredited than the IC is willing go. In short, Sandaria believes delaying Schueler's task for any reason is unacceptable.

If the SSK has the true Testimony of Schueler but NOT the visitation imagery, coopting OWL to create that imagery is something I can see her doing.


Ahem, OWL was set up by people who suspected that Langhorne and company were going to rewrite the mission plan. Thus, they would certainly purge the account list and reset all passwords (except for Nimue's).
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by SilverbladeTE   » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:34 am

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MantiMerchie wrote:Other than a couple controls for a couple of pumps, yes. Or rather yes at the operating level.
I'd have to see what non electrical controls used to exist for the main feed pump and condensate pumps.
The Liberty ships can operate their plant with no electricity but that's only 450 psi and I think no superheat.
Peter

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thanks for the info! :)

iirc Liberty ships only used standard triple expansion, ordinary oil fired boilers, nothing special
not sure on the Victory ships as they were faster

as said not my forte', so guess that means some things are out for the Charisians

Charis needs logistics more than war craft ;)
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by Randomiser   » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:13 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Not a hack. Schueler provided an access code that superseded Nimue's. Sandaria then coopted OWL to execute the plan Schueler tasked the SSK to perform as she believed it should be. In this scenario Nynian has directed the SSK to be guided by Merlin's Inner Circle. Sandaria disagrees but recognizes Nynian will not be persuaded that the CoGA needs to be much more thoroughly discredited than the IC is willing go. In short, Sandaria believes delaying Schueler's task for any reason is unacceptable.

If the SSK has the true Testimony of Schueler but NOT the visitation imagery, coopting OWL to create that imagery is something I can see her doing.


Ahem, OWL was set up by people who suspected that Langhorne and company were going to rewrite the mission plan. Thus, they would certainly purge the account list and reset all passwords (except for Nimue's).


Exactly! There is zero evidence that Scheuler knew anything about Nimue's Cave, far less had access to set up user accounts. It's unlikely that he would ever have had access to military computers himself. And you notice PeterZ ignores my comment on the unlikeliness of Sandaria having a code Nynian doesn't know about.
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:28 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Not a hack. Schueler provided an access code that superseded Nimue's. Sandaria then coopted OWL to execute the plan Schueler tasked the SSK to perform as she believed it should be. In this scenario Nynian has directed the SSK to be guided by Merlin's Inner Circle. Sandaria disagrees but recognizes Nynian will not be persuaded that the CoGA needs to be much more thoroughly discredited than the IC is willing go. In short, Sandaria believes delaying Schueler's task for any reason is unacceptable.

If the SSK has the true Testimony of Schueler but NOT the visitation imagery, coopting OWL to create that imagery is something I can see her doing.
Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
Ahem, OWL was set up by people who suspected that Langhorne and company were going to rewrite the mission plan. Thus, they would certainly purge the account list and reset all passwords (except for Nimue's).
Randomiser wrote:
Exactly! There is zero evidence that Scheuler knew anything about Nimue's Cave, far less had access to set up user accounts. It's unlikely that he would ever have had access to military computers himself. And you notice PeterZ ignores my comment on the unlikeliness of Sandaria having a code Nynian doesn't know about.

Nynian could know about the Schueler Plan and anything Schuueler left for the SSK. Just because she and Sandaria disagree with how to proceed in executing the plan doesn't mean Nynian will reveal a secret she swore to maintain. That is if the SSK are committed to keeping Schueler's secret.

In that scenario, Nynian believes the timing for executing the plan would improve after the Nahrmahn Plan begins to shift attitudes on Safehold. Sandaria disagrees and is willing to use an over ride to solicit OWL's help.

As for Schueler having the over ride, perhaps Khody's demon provided him with an over ride that would work both on the Temple computers as well as OWL? Something Dr. Proctor installed on all their software as well as slipped into the temple computers. That access was what persuaded Khody and later Schueler.

There is indeed no evidence, but something is strange with the SSK and Schueler's Visitation. Something doesn't fit and I am trying to fill in the blanks.
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by Guillaume   » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:01 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Exactly! There is zero evidence that Scheuler knew anything about Nimue's Cave, far less had access to set up user accounts.


As far as we can tell Nimue, the PICA, the cave and it's content are sooooo off the book that they do not exist as far as anything tied to the official mission. ( the one Langhorne and all twisted into Safehold )

Now after saying that, it doesn't preclude the fact that some of the Archangels might have been unhappy with the whole thing at some point and that they took their own measures to ensure that the whole Safehold project came to fruition.

It's going to be interesting how all these off the book, millenia long hidden secrets collides with each other...

We got a few first glimpses with the Saint Zhernau Brothers and Khody's Diary... but they just vindicated Nimue/Merlin's actions.

Now with the hook left at the end of the last book we can only speculate... Especially because of the source, that cannot have any knowledge of Nimue/Merlin's work on Safehold for the last few years.
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Re: Siddarmark Situation
Post by Julia Minor   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:53 pm

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PeterZ wrote:As for Schueler having the over ride, perhaps Khody's demon provided him with an over ride that would work both on the Temple computers as well as OWL? Something Dr. Proctor installed on all their software as well as slipped into the temple computers. That access was what persuaded Khody and later Schueler.


If Proctor was known as a supporter of Pei Shan-wei, why on Earth would the Langhorne/Chihiro faction let him have unsupervised access to their computers?

I don't recall offhand if Proctor was at Alexandria when it got clobbered. But let's say he wasn't, and was thought "loyal" until later in the War. Once it was realized Proctor belonged on the fallen-archangel list, the loyalists should have immediately pulled system logs and started going over everything he did to the computer systems. He was a darn good programmer, but not omniscient (see: Merlin's high-speed data port), and a full-scale security check should have caught something.

If there's a computer override floating around Safehold, Schueler should have had it himself. His initial portfolio appears to have been education, and by the end of the war he's clearly taken over security.
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