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A new kind of System defense Station

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A new kind of System defense Station
Post by Maldorian   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:48 pm

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Excuse me if something I write here is already written in a book (Germany is still one or two books behind in translation) or mentioned in another Topic.

The current Backbone of manticorian defense are LAC´s and system defense pods.

The early pod control stations were unarmored, don´t know if that has changed in time, but should be. Also you need hangars for LAC´s. So, why not create a modular space station system for both?

I am thinking about a zylindric space station with disk like modules. A Disk could be a pod control module with a lot of communication equippment, or a hangar module with LAC hangars. Each module armored and equipped with missle defense.

So you can combine the moduls as you need them: only one Pod and LAC module for backwater systems or a half dozen moduls per staion and mutiple station´s for important systems.

What´s your opinion? Does I miss something?
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Re: A new kind of System defense Station
Post by kzt   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:35 pm

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System defense pods are smallish, stealthy, hard to find and deployed away from the planets they protect. How exactly stealthy works when it's been stated that you can only start the pod reactor from another running fusion reactor - hence system defense pods always have a running fusion reactor - seems to be left as an exercise for the reader.

And also pod reactors put out huge amounts of radiation that Honorverse tech is incapable of protecting people from (but somehow this exposure to insanely high levels of xray and gamma radiation has no impact on the reliability of atomic electronics that you would think might not work so well when being constantly ionized. But whatever).

LAC hangers are large and bulky and need to be deployed where people can live.

So these don't seem to be exactly comparable in operation.
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Re: A new kind of System defense Station
Post by Theemile   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:54 pm

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kzt wrote:System defense pods are smallish, stealthy, hard to find and deployed away from the planets they protect. How exactly stealthy works when it's been stated that you can only start the pod reactor from another running fusion reactor - hence system defense pods always have a running fusion reactor - seems to be left as an exercise for the reader.

And also pod reactors put out huge amounts of radiation that Honorverse tech is incapable of protecting people from (but somehow this exposure to insanely high levels of xray and gamma radiation has no impact on the reliability of atomic electronics that you would think might not work so well when being constantly ionized. But whatever).

LAC hangers are large and bulky and need to be deployed where people can live.

So these don't seem to be exactly comparable in operation.



On top of KZT'S POINTS, RFC posted on here a few years back that the modern fort design is a modular affair, being an oblate spheroid, designed with LAC tender modules, pod Bay modules, close weapons modules, etc. This allows the newest generation of forts to be rebuilt in the future if necessary as technology changes, and allowing a common design methodology for forts with different focuses. This design has 360 degree weapons and defenses, wedge for mobility, bubble sidewalls, and can be built larger if necessary
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: A new kind of System defense Station
Post by Fireflair   » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:24 am

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Additionally the majority of system defense that does not come from mobile units comes from the pods which have been mentioned. Spread around they are controlled from a grouping of stealthed bases that are mostly just large fire control centers, Key Hole II platforms with power supplies and some defenses. Moriarty was the initial version developed by Haven, which then becomes Mycroft under Manticore's improvements.
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Re: A new kind of System defense Station
Post by Maldorian   » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:48 am

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kzt wrote:
System defense pods are smallish, stealthy, hard to find and deployed away from the planets they protect. How exactly stealthy works when it's been stated that you can only start the pod reactor from another running fusion reactor - hence system defense pods always have a running fusion reactor - seems to be left as an exercise for the reader.

And also pod reactors put out huge amounts of radiation that Honorverse tech is incapable of protecting people from (but somehow this exposure to insanely high levels of xray and gamma radiation has no impact on the reliability of atomic electronics that you would think might not work so well when being constantly ionized. But whatever).

LAC hangers are large and bulky and need to be deployed where people can live.

So these don't seem to be exactly comparable in operation.



On top of KZT'S POINTS, RFC posted on here a few years back that the modern fort design is a modular affair, being an oblate spheroid, designed with LAC tender modules, pod Bay modules, close weapons modules, etc. This allows the newest generation of forts to be rebuilt in the future if necessary as technology changes, and allowing a common design methodology for forts with different focuses. This design has 360 degree weapons and defenses, wedge for mobility, bubble sidewalls, and can be built larger if necessary


Thanks for the Feedback. I don´t know, that the existing forts already are so modular. Makes this post obsolet.
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Re: A new kind of System defense Station
Post by Theemile   » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:42 am

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Maldorian wrote:
Thanks for the Feedback. I don´t know, that the existing forts already are so modular. Makes this post obsolet.


David only has mentioned that on the forum here, there is no way to gleam that from the books.

ahh. found it...

http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2928&hilit=modular&start=50#p61949

It should be remembered both that fortresses are not truly immobile and that their hull forms are significantly different from those of hyper-capable warships. Because they aren't hyper-capable, they don't require Warshawski sails, which means they don't require the "double-ended spindle" design of a superdreadnought. If they choose to drop the impeller wedges which give them mobility, they have an enormously greater field of fire than any superdreadnought, protected by sidewall bubble generators (and a few additional neat tricks the Manties have developed in the last few years), even though those wedges remain available if needed for protection as well as movement. Among other things, this gives them vastly more effective direct-fire anti-missile capability. They have much more volume (and usable surface area) for defensive systems, and they can be — and are — built with multiple MDM missile cores and very heavily armored deployment hatches. They carry more than twice as much ammunition, have a heavier volume of fire, are better protected, have four or five times as many counter missile launchers and point defense clusters, and require much smaller crews than superdreadnoughts half their size. In addition, fortresses, because they are fixed defenses that don't have to transport all of their war fighting capabilities with them, can be readily built (or reconfigured) to support multiple Keyhole platforms, including Keyhole-Two platforms, further augmenting their defensive firepower and providing enormously capable Apollo offensive fire control for all of those oodles and oodles of internal missiles they carry around with them . . . not to mention the system defense pods normally deployed in company with them.

Traditionally, fortresses have been designed and built with an eye towards refits and upgrades to a much greater extent than would be possible with a conventional warship. The pre-Havenite Wars Manticoran fortresses were built to then-current technological standards, however. In an era of MDMs — and especially Apollo — it was literally impossible to refit them radically enough to retain them as survivable and effective platforms, which is why the RMN completely redesigned them and started building from scratch. The new fortresses are built in modular sections which are transported to the point at which they will be needed and assembled in place (and which can be disassembled and moved somewhere else if that seems appropriate). They've also incorporated all of the new armor technologies, and their energy batteries have been arranged with an eye towards completely removing any of the (multiple) weapon decks (and the armor protecting them) in order to plug in new, upgraded weapons (or to change them out for additional CM launchers and point defense clusters, if that seems appropriate). They have enormous stowage capacity for missile pods and counter missiles, and their modular construction was deliberately designed to allow additional modules to be assembled into single platforms of up to 30 megatons. For that matter, they could be built even bigger than that, except that the Navy hasn't yet gotten around to designing a spinal structure to go to tonnages above that level. And they are fitted with armored LAC bays to provide them with large numbers of LACs for employment in local security functions and use in the new Manticoran anti-missile doctrines being developed.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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