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Captain Zavala and Seraphim

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Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by CaptainPerseus   » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:07 pm

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I'm probably about to ask a stupid question, but I think I may have missed something in Shadow of Victory. In that book, Captain Zavala eventually shows up on Seraphim and arrests Damien Harahap, but was it ever mentioned anywhere else in the book that he had been dispatch to that world? I know that Admiral Culbertson broke up Scotty Termaine's cruiser division and sent it to different star systems that were possibly contacted by the Mesan Alignment in Operation Janus, but I don't remember someone sending Zavala anywhere.
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:25 am

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CaptainPerseus wrote:I'm probably about to ask a stupid question, but I think I may have missed something in Shadow of Victory. In that book, Captain Zavala eventually shows up on Seraphim and arrests Damien Harahap, but was it ever mentioned anywhere else in the book that he had been dispatch to that world? I know that Admiral Culbertson broke up Scotty Termaine's cruiser division and sent it to different star systems that were possibly contacted by the Mesan Alignment in Operation Janus, but I don't remember someone sending Zavala anywhere.


Culbertson sent out 4 task forces, each of which included a Saganami-C heavy cruiser and a Roland division, along with other destroyers, a few light cruisers, and a fast freighter. Therefore, I conclude that Zavala's division was part of a taskforce sent to Seraphim (and probably a few other places as well).
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Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by Theemile   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:22 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
CaptainPerseus wrote:I'm probably about to ask a stupid question, but I think I may have missed something in Shadow of Victory. In that book, Captain Zavala eventually shows up on Seraphim and arrests Damien Harahap, but was it ever mentioned anywhere else in the book that he had been dispatch to that world? I know that Admiral Culbertson broke up Scotty Termaine's cruiser division and sent it to different star systems that were possibly contacted by the Mesan Alignment in Operation Janus, but I don't remember someone sending Zavala anywhere.


Culbertson sent out 4 task forces, each of which included a Saganami-C heavy cruiser and a Roland division, along with other destroyers, a few light cruisers, and a fast freighter. Therefore, I conclude that Zavala's division was part of a taskforce sent to Seraphim (and probably a few other places as well).


Each of those task forces was to go check a series of planets in the region to verify that none had been promised Manty aid for a rebellion, and didn't receive it. Saraphim was just another planet on the list.

The idea was to field forces sufficient to control a system, take out any SLN forces encountered, and materially assist any rebellions, while not being so intimidating, that they could slide in and out of a system without causing an issue if none exists, all out of the light forces and support elements available to Admiral Culperson.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by stewart   » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:20 pm

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Theemile wrote:"Robert_A_Woodward"]"CaptainPerseus"]I'm probably about to ask a stupid question, but I think I may have missed something in Shadow of Victory. In that book, Captain Zavala eventually shows up on Seraphim and arrests Damien Harahap, but was it ever mentioned anywhere else in the book that he had been dispatch to that world? I know that Admiral Culbertson broke up Scotty Termaine's cruiser division and sent it to different star systems that were possibly contacted by the Mesan Alignment in Operation Janus, but I don't remember someone sending Zavala anywhere.


Culbertson sent out 4 task forces, each of which included a Saganami-C heavy cruiser and a Roland division, along with other destroyers, a few light cruisers, and a fast freighter. Therefore, I conclude that Zavala's division was part of a taskforce sent to Seraphim (and probably a few other places as well).[/quote]

Each of those task forces was to go check a series of planets in the region to verify that none had been promised Manty aid for a rebellion, and didn't receive it. Saraphim was just another planet on the list.

The idea was to field forces sufficient to control a system, take out any SLN forces encountered, and materially assist any rebellions, while not being so intimidating, that they could slide in and out of a system without causing an issue if none exists, all out of the light forces and support elements available to Admiral Culperson.[/quote]

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There are (in multiple places) examples of "hand-wavium" in the timing of actions and events. It is often best to look the other way when apparent conflicts in time are seen; Others are just "not seen on stage". Zavala's orders and arrival are an example of the latter. A happy coincidence that Zavala and his abreviated squadron was the one that arrived at Saraphim.

-- Stewart
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by runsforcelery   » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:04 pm

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stewart wrote:
Theemile wrote:"Robert_A_Woodward"]"CaptainPerseus"]I'm probably about to ask a stupid question, but I think I may have missed something in Shadow of Victory. In that book, Captain Zavala eventually shows up on Seraphim and arrests Damien Harahap, but was it ever mentioned anywhere else in the book that he had been dispatch to that world? I know that Admiral Culbertson broke up Scotty Termaine's cruiser division and sent it to different star systems that were possibly contacted by the Mesan Alignment in Operation Janus, but I don't remember someone sending Zavala anywhere.


Culbertson sent out 4 task forces, each of which included a Saganami-C heavy cruiser and a Roland division, along with other destroyers, a few light cruisers, and a fast freighter. Therefore, I conclude that Zavala's division was part of a taskforce sent to Seraphim (and probably a few other places as well).


Each of those task forces was to go check a series of planets in the region to verify that none had been promised Manty aid for a rebellion, and didn't receive it. Saraphim was just another planet on the list.

The idea was to field forces sufficient to control a system, take out any SLN forces encountered, and materially assist any rebellions, while not being so intimidating, that they could slide in and out of a system without causing an issue if none exists, all out of the light forces and support elements available to Admiral Culperson.[/quote]

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There are (in multiple places) examples of "hand-wavium" in the timing of actions and events. It is often best to look the other way when apparent conflicts in time are seen; Others are just "not seen on stage". Zavala's orders and arrival are an example of the latter. A happy coincidence that Zavala and his abreviated squadron was the one that arrived at Saraphim.

-- Stewart[/quote]


Actually, my timeline for the series shows exactly when his squadron left, exactly what systems it visited, and exactly when it arrived in each of them. I couldn't begin to keep things straight for the last half-dozen books or so without setting up a timeline just like that. So while there may be a little handwavium involved in who gets sent where, there isn't any about when they get there.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:49 am

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runsforcelery wrote:
Actually, my timeline for the series shows exactly when his squadron left, exactly what systems it visited, and exactly when it arrived in each of them. I couldn't begin to keep things straight for the last half-dozen books or so without setting up a timeline just like that. So while there may be a little handwavium involved in who gets sent where, there isn't any about when they get there.



What I want to know is where is Abby Hearnes and will there be another scene of her washing her hair.

I know that these heterogeneous task forces emulate 20th century naval practice, but it tends to burden Mk-16 armed ships with consorts armed with less capable, shorter range missiles. The result is a needless ass kicking but it does set the stage for a heroic death ride.
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by BobG   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:01 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I know that these heterogeneous task forces emulate 20th century naval practice, but it tends to burden Mk-16 armed ships with consorts armed with less capable, shorter range missiles. The result is a needless ass kicking but it does set the stage for a heroic death ride.

When your non-Mk-16 DDs are armed with a dozen or so Mk 23 pods, you still have a significant imbalance.

Digression:

For example, if the 5 CAs in Cachelot had had 24 Mk-23 pods tractored to each of their hulls, they could have sent the pods in ballistically toward the SSN ships and salvoed them at the same time they launched their shipboard missiles. They could have launched close enough to go to 92K Gs, and taken out 30 or 40 BCs before the Sollies could react (lets say 3 pods/24 laser heads for each BC, so that would be 40 targets).

I think they ultimately might still have been destroyed, but they would have totally disorganized C&C for their first several salvos, especially if they could target the squadron flagships.

Alternatively, they could have bluffed, and said that the salvo of pods was their first salvo, so won't the Sollies please surrender before they launch their second salvo?

-- Bob G
SF & Fantasy: The only things better than Chocolate.
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by kzt   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:14 am

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Ballistically? How many days were they planning of waiting to start the fight?
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by BobG   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:33 pm

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kzt wrote:Ballistically? How many days were they planning of waiting to start the fight?

If the ships had accelerated for 1 hour at 100 Gs under stealth, then reversed at the same, the pods would have a velocity of ~3600 kps, so it could travel 25M k in less than 12 hours.

2 hours acceleration = 6 hours coat time.

It works. Go into stealth, accelerate, dump the pods, reverse acceleration, until you are in position. And you can always trigger the pods early if you need to. If I computed it correctly, Mk 23s at 92K Gs for 3 minutes have a range of 14.1M k. So that cuts the time for the first case from 12 hours to 6 hours.

That said, I don't remember offhand how long the ultimatum was, so whether they had that much time based on their starting position, etc, is another question.

-- Bob G
SF & Fantasy: The only things better than Chocolate.
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Re: Captain Zavala and Seraphim
Post by kzt   » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:29 pm

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So we have a bunch of running fusion reactors in a ballistic trajectory. Can’t see how anyone would notice them at say 800k against the 4k background temp of space.
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