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Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during raids?

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Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during raids?
Post by ThisName1   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:43 pm

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I couldn't find any specific mentions but it makes a certain sense. While re-reading war of honor and at all costs a thought popped in my head, if after the raid the raiders were in control of the system how long would they stick around to help with rescue efforts. This led to wondering what happened if during those efforts they found a senior officer, it makes sense to me to take them back for interrogation and to deny the enemy of their services. Especially if they were a particularly effective officer. For instance if Giscard hadn't been killed and had been found by Harrington's people, claiming him as a POW and taking him back would be a good idea.
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:37 pm

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ThisName1 wrote:I couldn't find any specific mentions but it makes a certain sense. While re-reading war of honor and at all costs a thought popped in my head, if after the raid the raiders were in control of the system how long would they stick around to help with rescue efforts. This led to wondering what happened if during those efforts they found a senior officer, it makes sense to me to take them back for interrogation and to deny the enemy of their services. Especially if they were a particularly effective officer. For instance if Giscard hadn't been killed and had been found by Harrington's people, claiming him as a POW and taking him back would be a good idea.



In IN ENEMY HANDS, the PRN actually arranged to ambush a task force commanded by HH in order to capture her.
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:11 pm

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I was under the impression both were taking prisoners because Harrington set the stage for treating her POWs with decency which was later reciprocated. I would imagine that raids create situations where it would actually be cruel not to pick up stranded crew. "Take no prisoners" is a cruel facet of war if done just for the hell of it.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by stewart   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:50 pm

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cthia wrote:I was under the impression both were taking prisoners because Harrington set the stage for treating her POWs with decency which was later reciprocated. I would imagine that raids create situations where it would actual be cruel not to pick up stranded crew. "Take no prisoners" is a cruel facet of war if done just for the hell of it.


------------------

In the early/first Haven-Manticore War it depended on circumstances -- Manticore/Alliance forces generally took POWs; Haven took both Military and merchant POWs if the commander was decent (ex Caslet, Tourville);
Start of 2nd Haven-Manticore War showed RHN advising merchies to abandon to small craft (AAC -- chap 1) if they did not have facilities or accommidations.

-- Stewart
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:26 pm

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cthia wrote:I was under the impression both were taking prisoners because Harrington set the stage for treating her POWs with decency which was later reciprocated. I would imagine that raids create situations where it would actually be cruel not to pick up stranded crew. "Take no prisoners" is a cruel facet of war if done just for the hell of it.



Remember the battle of Basilisk in ECHOES OF HONOR?

As the GSN were gleefully rolling pods from their SD(P)s Whitehaven freaks out when he hears, "And the order is given: No Mercy"
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by stewart   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:57 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
cthia wrote:I was under the impression both were taking prisoners because Harrington set the stage for treating her POWs with decency which was later reciprocated. I would imagine that raids create situations where it would actually be cruel not to pick up stranded crew. "Take no prisoners" is a cruel facet of war if done just for the hell of it.



Remember the battle of Basilisk in ECHOES OF HONOR?

As the GSN were gleefully rolling pods from their SD(P)s Whitehaven freaks out when he hears, "And the order is given: No Mercy"



------------

"No Mercy" = Fire all missiles

"No Quarter" = No prisoners

Yanakov was willing to take prisoners, but only those who surrendered/survived ...

"Alexander Hamish grabbed for his own com with frantic haste with Judah Yanakov's order still ringing in his ears. He was horrified by the implications, and his horror grew as the Graysons' fire control continued to sweep the tumbling wreckage and the handful of life pods which had escaped. But none of them fired, and as he slowly relaxed in his chair once more, his memory replayed the words once more. "No mercy," Yanakov had said, not "No quarter," and a long, quavering breath sighed out of him as he realized he was not about to see a vengeful atrocity by units under his command.
He inhaled slowly, then looked at Granston-Henley.
"Remind me to have a little discussion with Admiral Yanakov about communications discipline," he said, and his mouth quirked in a wry, exhausted grin that might actually hold true humor again someday."


-- Stewart
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:49 pm

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I also recall a prisoner exchange initiated, iinm, with Henke?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:51 pm

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Holy cow! I'm remembering the half million prisoners Honor taxied home in EoH? Also, Rear Admiral Stiles was captured after caught with cold impellers. Ironic -- cold impellers = hot planet. LOL

I'm suddenly curious about the timeline in this regard. Pritchard stated she might be interested in a prisoner exchange. If so, she cheated? She did not divulge the numerous prisoners on Hades?

If course, ThisName1 is specifically asking about "raids" and not system grabbing attacks -- where raiding might not allow time to collect POWs.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by ThisName1   » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:57 am

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cthia wrote:I was under the impression both were taking prisoners because Harrington set the stage for treating her POWs with decency which was later reciprocated. I would imagine that raids create situations where it would actually be cruel not to pick up stranded crew. "Take no prisoners" is a cruel facet of war if done just for the hell of it.



I should have specified the second war. Other than operation buttercup it seems that both sides stuck to raids and didn't capture and hold systems. So if they wanted to they could've left the enemies survivors behind. And I doubt that they brought the facilities to transport the number of prisoners they could have captured with them on the raids. So if I were in charge of those raids I'd have taken as many key personnel as I could with me and left the rest.
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Re: Were manticore and haven were taking prisoners during ra
Post by cthia   » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:52 am

cthia
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ThisName1 wrote:
cthia wrote:I was under the impression both were taking prisoners because Harrington set the stage for treating her POWs with decency which was later reciprocated. I would imagine that raids create situations where it would actually be cruel not to pick up stranded crew. "Take no prisoners" is a cruel facet of war if done just for the hell of it.



I should have specified the second war. Other than operation buttercup it seems that both sides stuck to raids and didn't capture and hold systems. So if they wanted to they could've left the enemies survivors behind. And I doubt that they brought the facilities to transport the number of prisoners they could have captured with them on the raids. So if I were in charge of those raids I'd have taken as many key personnel as I could with me and left the rest.


I agree.

I think stewart hit the nail closer to the head. It depended on the circumstances in both wars as far as raiding goes. The circumstances including: the general success of the raid, estimated time to loiter in-system, perceived treasures of particular system and your own overall damages. A raiding force certainly can't collect prisoners if it was shot all to hell, like one of Honor's raids in Cutworm.

Checking with the drunken Wiki it seems like the success and havoc wreaked with the opening leg of Cutworm would have produced many POWs. I think it would be SOP to collect prisoners just in case there's a Harrington or a Theisman or a Foraker lurking in the midst.

Cutworm
The first Operation Cutworm included several raids on weakly defended star systems in the inner Republic. Admiral Harrington's forces hit Gaston, Tambourin, Squalus, Hera, and Hallman, destroying as good as every bit of orbital industry in each of them. They also destroyed two battleships, seven battlecruisers, four old cruisers, three destroyers, and over a thousand LACs.

Cutworm saw the first use of Katana-class light attack craft against enemy forces. (HH11)

Cutworm II
The four star systems hit in this operation included Augusta, Chantilly, Des Moines and Fordyce. (HH11)

Cutworm III
The RMN reduced its objectives list for Cutworm III to two star systems, Lorn and Solon. The operation turned into a disaster for Manticore when Admiral Harrington's Task Force 82 was ambushed into the Battle of Solon.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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