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Uncompromising Honor chatter

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Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by MrZero   » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:49 pm

MrZero
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Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:21 am

While there's a lot of chatter about Uncompromising Honor spread across the board, we seem to lack a thread intentionally meant to center the discussion for UH. As it is, without one, it'll just keep scattering across the HH boards.
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I just finished reading Uncompromising Honor. A good story, and a long overdue wrap-up of a few plotlines. There were much fewer various fights and last stands then I expected, but what there was, was solid. I liked the ending, really did. More like endings, plural. Honor spending 4 days above Chicago sounds like it should be worth another story by itself. I thought that the last few books have cut out all the paperwork and administration that a fleet commander had to do. (As Honor, and Weber, got older, there's been a noticeable increase in the amount of "spend time with your family, love your family" worked into his books.) Figuratively beating some sense into the Sol League made up for so much, though. Of course, if I was writing, I would have had to clarify/remind the issue of the shape of the ships- spherical like Dahak, or cylindrical like the earlier Manticorn ships? It would have been a plot point when landing ships in Chicago and using them as a rolling pin.
Anyway, I thought that the book lacked a lot of the personal struggles that Honor had in earlier books. Yes, they shouldn't be repeated, but there was a lot of H shows up, and the universe falls in line: no rules, no regulations, no money, no paperwork is there to stop her. There were none of the obstructionism or arguments that would dot anyone else's span of time from the book's start to end. Not even a paragraph with McGuiness arguing about reservations, or you can't use that docking port you aren't booked for it, in the background.
Not that that stopped the book from being good, or the time spent of what was a c-plot in earlier books from growing, all-or-nothing to risky bet to do you believe me now? into an A plot. The ghost hunters proved their worth, that they were right, and that they were very good at the narrow band of what they were good at. The Sol Moving Day went too far, but if you're going to build a space station, or any storage facility, then any art gallery, library, money bank, or server farm, aught to have had a way to land it's Very Important bits on a planet somewhere. I hope that there's a few thousand cargo pods scattered around Sol system that weren't blown up. While there was no exploration into it, in Sol as there was at Hypatia, a station is meant to be stationary, but when push comes to shove you gotta be able to save the goods.
And as for the fleet scuttle, people should have been jumping at the chance to get some for themselves. There's no reason that they can't suggest _where_ it scuttles, right? Drop a few into the sun, stack a few dozen on the surface of Venus and call it a habitat base, how deep can a super-expensive Solly warship get into the deeps of Jupiter and still send back info? Ideas that would have been too ruinously expensive up until then.
The ending was very satisfying, and not possible earlier in the series, as H clearly is banking on the new tech to be showy about. Honor going on vacation has all the hallmarks of James Bond trying to go on vacation.

Hypatia- Hypers or hippies?
7h- 7 heaven- Yay, violent crime! Familiar territory for readers from the 20th century. We should see more of the nano-drug market. After all, every human being has had nano dna work done, and Harrington's parents are nano medical specialists, and the Greyson planet is even more conservative than an _informed_ doctor. So what needs to be programmed to get the drug to stop working on a human?
And there's still a lot of man on the street we need to see of the Earth lapsebarbs.
It would have been nice to see what the news report of the Filatera bridge audio file would have been.
Manties: "Hey, guys! We found some evidence that Filatera surrendered then attacked. Then we attacked. But he surrendered, so we can all stop burning him in effigy now."
Hypatia- it looks like Harrington's not the only hero in the navy. It doesn't look like any of the survivors survived the Beowolf thing though.
-I understand that treecats are the series mascot, but it's just not right that they aren't, haven't heard of anyone trying to, making any treecat/earth cat hybrids. Just a few, just to see what would happen. Honor might balk at the idea, but the project's been opened up to a lot of people for quite some time now. And they don't all have to agree...
-Weber has given treecats modern pulse guns to go along with their normal
mindeater abilities, and so far the treecats are feral enough that they like the access to human living as much or more as they like
the unrestricted access to the rulership of at least three star kingdoms.
But how long will it be until they decide that some house cleaning needs to be done and a few assassinations need to happen? Nimitz has Harrington's brain set up just as cozy as wants. But now that the
Manticorns have taken over Earth, and all it's entrenched affulenza, Ghormangasts, Patriot Act, Jersy Shore Rich, Ski Lodge Rich, etc there's gonna be human citizens who are judged too stupid to be allowed to live.
When nanotech cures mental illness in a species, you either get sameness or a different shape that insanity will be expressed in. Treecats vs hoarders, godawful stuff like earstretchers, full body tattoos, the one story house with 20+ cats, etc and other stuff that is too stupid to be allowed under 'body modifications'.
Also hoping for a return of the aliens: the long forgotten, long unseen, from the original Basilisk Station book non-human sentient life. It's also possible that the treecat infection is making the humans change the maps, "forget" about a few planets..
HH's been the flagship series for Weber, and hope a return to it comes along some day. Until then, thanks. It's been a good read, a good ride, and a good adventure.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:35 am

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Why try an impossible cross between two species (cat and tree cat) from two totally different evolutions? I'd like to see a cross between a tree cat and a hexapuma.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by ldwechsler   » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:36 am

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am

MrZero wrote:While there's a lot of chatter about Uncompromising Honor spread across the board, we seem to lack a thread intentionally meant to center the discussion for UH. As it is, without one, it'll just keep scattering across the HH boards.
-
I just finished reading Uncompromising Honor. A good story, and a long overdue wrap-up of a few plotlines. There were much fewer various fights and last stands then I expected, but what there was, was solid. I liked the ending, really did. More like endings, plural. Honor spending 4 days above Chicago sounds like it should be worth another story by itself. I thought that the last few books have cut out all the paperwork and administration that a fleet commander had to do. (As Honor, and Weber, got older, there's been a noticeable increase in the amount of "spend time with your family, love your family" worked into his books.) Figuratively beating some sense into the Sol League made up for so much, though. Of course, if I was writing, I would have had to clarify/remind the issue of the shape of the ships- spherical like Dahak, or cylindrical like the earlier Manticorn ships? It would have been a plot point when landing ships in Chicago and using them as a rolling pin.
Anyway, I thought that the book lacked a lot of the personal struggles that Honor had in earlier books. Yes, they shouldn't be repeated, but there was a lot of H shows up, and the universe falls in line: no rules, no regulations, no money, no paperwork is there to stop her. There were none of the obstructionism or arguments that would dot anyone else's span of time from the book's start to end. Not even a paragraph with McGuiness arguing about reservations, or you can't use that docking port you aren't booked for it, in the background.
Not that that stopped the book from being good, or the time spent of what was a c-plot in earlier books from growing, all-or-nothing to risky bet to do you believe me now? into an A plot. The ghost hunters proved their worth, that they were right, and that they were very good at the narrow band of what they were good at. The Sol Moving Day went too far, but if you're going to build a space station, or any storage facility, then any art gallery, library, money bank, or server farm, aught to have had a way to land it's Very Important bits on a planet somewhere. I hope that there's a few thousand cargo pods scattered around Sol system that weren't blown up. While there was no exploration into it, in Sol as there was at Hypatia, a station is meant to be stationary, but when push comes to shove you gotta be able to save the goods.
And as for the fleet scuttle, people should have been jumping at the chance to get some for themselves. There's no reason that they can't suggest _where_ it scuttles, right? Drop a few into the sun, stack a few dozen on the surface of Venus and call it a habitat base, how deep can a super-expensive Solly warship get into the deeps of Jupiter and still send back info? Ideas that would have been too ruinously expensive up until then.
The ending was very satisfying, and not possible earlier in the series, as H clearly is banking on the new tech to be showy about. Honor going on vacation has all the hallmarks of James Bond trying to go on vacation.

Hypatia- Hypers or hippies?
7h- 7 heaven- Yay, violent crime! Familiar territory for readers from the 20th century. We should see more of the nano-drug market. After all, every human being has had nano dna work done, and Harrington's parents are nano medical specialists, and the Greyson planet is even more conservative than an _informed_ doctor. So what needs to be programmed to get the drug to stop working on a human?
And there's still a lot of man on the street we need to see of the Earth lapsebarbs.
It would have been nice to see what the news report of the Filatera bridge audio file would have been.
Manties: "Hey, guys! We found some evidence that Filatera surrendered then attacked. Then we attacked. But he surrendered, so we can all stop burning him in effigy now."
Hypatia- it looks like Harrington's not the only hero in the navy. It doesn't look like any of the survivors survived the Beowolf thing though.
-I understand that treecats are the series mascot, but it's just not right that they aren't, haven't heard of anyone trying to, making any treecat/earth cat hybrids. Just a few, just to see what would happen. Honor might balk at the idea, but the project's been opened up to a lot of people for quite some time now. And they don't all have to agree...
-Weber has given treecats modern pulse guns to go along with their normal
mindeater abilities, and so far the treecats are feral enough that they like the access to human living as much or more as they like
the unrestricted access to the rulership of at least three star kingdoms.
But how long will it be until they decide that some house cleaning needs to be done and a few assassinations need to happen? Nimitz has Harrington's brain set up just as cozy as wants. But now that the
Manticorns have taken over Earth, and all it's entrenched affulenza, Ghormangasts, Patriot Act, Jersy Shore Rich, Ski Lodge Rich, etc there's gonna be human citizens who are judged too stupid to be allowed to live.
When nanotech cures mental illness in a species, you either get sameness or a different shape that insanity will be expressed in. Treecats vs hoarders, godawful stuff like earstretchers, full body tattoos, the one story house with 20+ cats, etc and other stuff that is too stupid to be allowed under 'body modifications'.
Also hoping for a return of the aliens: the long forgotten, long unseen, from the original Basilisk Station book non-human sentient life. It's also possible that the treecat infection is making the humans change the maps, "forget" about a few planets..
HH's been the flagship series for Weber, and hope a return to it comes along some day. Until then, thanks. It's been a good read, a good ride, and a good adventure.


If we had to cover EVERYTHING like his, his books would run thousands of pages (and probably be a lot fewer). A lot of things over the years have been cut down. As I have noted we know rather a bit about TAC officers and something about astrogators (except of course how both sets of officers actually do what they do) but nothing about logistics, engineering, etc.
We know that there are some restrictions about drinking on ships but somehow Honor always has her beer around. Are officers, or at least captains, allowed to drink?

The shape of the ships probably means fairly little since they do not land on planets...there is no air resistance in space.

And few people who have read the books feel the treecats are mascots...Nimitz has always been a character unto himself and the same for Samantha.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by cthia   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:48 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Treecats are sentient beings. You can't simply experiment with Treecat dna. That would make it illegal and immoral. It probably transgresses some Beowulf code of ethics. Not to mention totally "egads-ting" the Cats.

Why not simply cross humans with apes. I hear we're actually close to them in evolution. Anyone attracted enough to an ape to give or even take one for the sake of science? Well, there's your answer. I hardly think Treecats are interested in mating with our furry little pets. Going about it without their approval is probably good enough to get a hand full of claws unsheathed up your backside.

It smacks of taking the first step towards unleashing the genetic mistakes and horrors of the Final Wars onto the 'Cats.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by ldwechsler   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:20 pm

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am

cthia wrote:Treecats are sentient beings. You can't simply experiment with Treecat dna. That would make it illegal and immoral. It probably transgresses some Beowulf code of ethics. Not to mention totally "egads-ting" the Cats.

Why not simply cross humans with apes. I hear we're actually close to them in evolution. Anyone attracted enough to an ape to give or even take one for the sake of science? Well, there's your answer. I hardly think Treecats are interested in mating with our furry little pets. Going about it without their approval is probably good enough to get a hand full of claws unsheathed up your backside.

It smacks of taking the first step towards unleashing the genetic mistakes and horrors of the Final Wars onto the 'Cats.


Unfortunately there are scientists and others who have no moral values.

Of course, merging DNA does not affect the animals it was taken from, but still...
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by tlb   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:36 pm

tlb
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1067
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

cthia wrote:Treecats are sentient beings. You can't simply experiment with Treecat dna. That would make it illegal and immoral. It probably transgresses some Beowulf code of ethics. Not to mention totally "egads-ting" the Cats.

Why not simply cross humans with apes. I hear we're actually close to them in evolution. Anyone attracted enough to an ape to give or even take one for the sake of science? Well, there's your answer. I hardly think Treecats are interested in mating with our furry little pets. Going about it without their approval is probably good enough to get a hand full of claws unsheathed up your backside.

It smacks of taking the first step towards unleashing the genetic mistakes and horrors of the Final Wars onto the 'Cats.

ldwechsler wrote:Unfortunately there are scientists and others who have no moral values.

Of course, merging DNA does not affect the animals it was taken from, but still...

Merging DNA can most likely be done in the test tube and so does not have anything to due with attraction. But it would undoubtedly be against the Beowulf Code.

If the biologists at Mesa could have had longer to study the treecat, then they would have tried to incorporate their results in a human genome.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by cthia   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:46 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Treecats are sentient beings. You can't simply experiment with Treecat dna. That would make it illegal and immoral. It probably transgresses some Beowulf code of ethics. Not to mention totally "egads-ting" the Cats.

Why not simply cross humans with apes. I hear we're actually close to them in evolution. Anyone attracted enough to an ape to give or even take one for the sake of science? Well, there's your answer. I hardly think Treecats are interested in mating with our furry little pets. Going about it without their approval is probably good enough to get a hand full of claws unsheathed up your backside.

It smacks of taking the first step towards unleashing the genetic mistakes and horrors of the Final Wars onto the 'Cats.

ldwechsler wrote:Unfortunately there are scientists and others who have no moral values.

Of course, merging DNA does not affect the animals it was taken from, but still...

Merging DNA can most likely be done in the test tube and so does not have anything to due with attraction. But it would undoubtedly be against the Beowulf Code.

If the biologists at Mesa could have had longer to study the treecat, then they would have tried to incorporate their results in a human genome.


Of course not. It is a facetious notion meant to show how repulsive it is. Actually seeing the result of your species crossed as such, may be only slightly better than actually mating as such.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by aairfccha   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:16 pm

aairfccha
Commander

Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:03 pm

tlb wrote:If the biologists at Mesa could have had longer to study the treecat, then they would have tried to incorporate their results in a human genome.

Somewhere is mentioned that Manpower obtained samples and even living treecats a long time ago (Stephanie Harrington time?), but wasn't really doing much with the information any more as they never managed to achieve much with it.
Last edited by aairfccha on Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by aairfccha   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:43 pm

aairfccha
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Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:03 pm

cthia wrote:Treecats are sentient beings.
Side note: so are lab mice, sentience != sapience but that's a quite common mistake.
cthia wrote:You can't simply experiment with Treecat dna. That would make it illegal and immoral. It probably transgresses some Beowulf code of ethics. Not to mention totally "egads-ting" the Cats.

What a "nice" collections of cthiaisms: apodictic statements backed by not much more then the poster's convictions. Do you really think this would stop a full-blown FOR SCIENCE mad scientist? Maybe one even getting paid for this by MGC or Manpower? In-Universe we have already seen people with cat traits put in place genetically.

cthia wrote:Why not simply cross humans with apes. I hear we're actually close to them in evolution.

Has been tried, evidence of success is rather slim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee

cthia wrote:Anyone attracted enough to an ape to give or even take one for the sake of science? Well, there's your answer.


Isn't zoophilia the archaeologically most documented fetish? Well, there's your answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_zoophilia
For less genetically distant flings, interbreeding between different human species has definitely occurred repeatedly.
WP:Interbreeding_between_archaic_and_modern_humans

cthia wrote:I hardly think Treecats are interested in mating with our furry little pets.
Their telepathy might make them more conformistic but since you just implicitly postulated (all) humans to be sexually disinterested in other species, I am inclined to take your opinion in general and here in particular cum grano salis. Pun very much intended.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by cthia   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:31 pm

cthia
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Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

aairfccha wrote:
cthia wrote:Treecats are sentient beings.
Side note: so are lab mice, sentience != sapience but that's a quite common mistake.
cthia wrote:You can't simply experiment with Treecat dna. That would make it illegal and immoral. It probably transgresses some Beowulf code of ethics. Not to mention totally "egads-ting" the Cats.

What a "nice" collections of cthiaisms: apodictic statements backed by not much more then the poster's convictions. Do you really think this would stop a full-blown FOR SCIENCE mad scientist? Maybe one even getting paid for this by MGC or Manpower? In-Universe we have already seen people with cat traits put in place genetically.

cthia wrote:Why not simply cross humans with apes. I hear we're actually close to them in evolution.

Has been tried, evidence of success is rather slim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee

cthia wrote:Anyone attracted enough to an ape to give or even take one for the sake of science? Well, there's your answer.


Isn't zoophilia the archaeologically most documented fetish? Well, there's your answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_zoophilia
For less genetically distant flings, interbreeding between different human species has definitely occurred repeatedly.
WP:Interbreeding_between_archaic_and_modern_humans

cthia wrote:I hardly think Treecats are interested in mating with our furry little pets.
Their telepathy might make them more conformistic but since you just implicitly postulated (all) humans to be sexually disinterested in other species, I am inclined to take your opinion in general and here in particular cum grano salis. Pun very much intended.


Pardon my misuse of sentient, which I've been doing for decades. I mistakenly use it interchangeably with intelligent, which isn't the case at all. Thanks for pointing that out.

It's a throwback from my AI programming days, where the goal was sentient responses which denotes intelligence.

You're absolutely correct that a mad scientist would hardly care about offending treecats or the Beowulf Code. Ahem, can we say the MAlign? But! I would assume that Cat DNA would be needed to effect the cross, and there's not a Cat alive that would go for that crap. I'm betting the whole farm of cthiaisms on that one.

Thanks again for reminding me of the broad range of human sexuality. Humans are also aroused by shoes, feet, pantyhose and more, and many try to mate with all the above. Dunno what became of my illogic. Though I'd bet the farm again that Treecats aren't as sexually deviant.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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