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Manticore Quadrant

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Manticore Quadrant
Post by TangoLima   » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:12 pm

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Will there be systems local to Maticore joining the SEM ?
Incentives like lower junction fees, access to tech and
medicine & etc.
The Principality of Alizon comes to mind.
It is implied that they already have a noble class.
Looking at the early maps suggests several/many others.
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by ywing14   » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:24 pm

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TangoLima wrote:Will there be systems local to Maticore joining the SEM ?
Incentives like lower junction fees, access to tech and
medicine & etc.
The Principality of Alizon comes to mind.
It is implied that they already have a noble class.
Looking at the early maps suggests several/many others.


I think it's unlikely, they never have seemed to get as close to the SEM as Grayson. I'll be interested to see how many of the Silesian Protectorates join up.
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by TangoLima   » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:32 pm

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The possibility is new as of TQ.
Some at least will consider it IMO.
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by tlb   » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:52 pm

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ywing14 wrote:I'll be interested to see how many of the Silesian Protectorates join up.

Interesting, I had not considered that Manticore's share of Silesia would not automatically end up as part of the Star Empire. I suppose you are right that some planet could take the option to refuse; but surely they would then miss any economic incentives that membership brought?
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by Theemile   » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:16 am

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tlb wrote:
ywing14 wrote:I'll be interested to see how many of the Silesian Protectorates join up.

Interesting, I had not considered that Manticore's share of Silesia would not automatically end up as part of the Star Empire. I suppose you are right that some planet could take the option to refuse; but surely they would then miss any economic incentives that membership brought?


However, whoever declines Manty control must also realize that their action also announces to the Andies that they are a future growth opportunity. Unless they are strong enough and stable enough to stand on their own against the heavy weights (Diplomatically and economically that is), the Andermani will see them as so much fodder for their empire. And since we are talking a former Silesian territory... Well, how's their German...
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by tlb   » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:37 am

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ywing14 wrote:I'll be interested to see how many of the Silesian Protectorates join up.

tlb wrote:Interesting, I had not considered that Manticore's share of Silesia would not automatically end up as part of the Star Empire. I suppose you are right that some planet could take the option to refuse; but surely they would then miss any economic incentives that membership brought?

Theemile wrote:However, whoever declines Manty control must also realize that their action also announces to the Andies that they are a future growth opportunity. Unless they are strong enough and stable enough to stand on their own against the heavy weights (Diplomatically and economically that is), the Andermani will see them as so much fodder for their empire. And since we are talking a former Silesian territory... Well, how's their German...

The only limitation I see to that is whether the SEM will discourage having Andermani possessions interspersed among its own members. Any planet on the boundary between the Andermani and the SEM would be fair game.
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by ldwechsler   » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:46 pm

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tlb wrote:
ywing14 wrote:I'll be interested to see how many of the Silesian Protectorates join up.

tlb wrote:Interesting, I had not considered that Manticore's share of Silesia would not automatically end up as part of the Star Empire. I suppose you are right that some planet could take the option to refuse; but surely they would then miss any economic incentives that membership brought?

Theemile wrote:However, whoever declines Manty control must also realize that their action also announces to the Andies that they are a future growth opportunity. Unless they are strong enough and stable enough to stand on their own against the heavy weights (Diplomatically and economically that is), the Andermani will see them as so much fodder for their empire. And since we are talking a former Silesian territory... Well, how's their German...

The only limitation I see to that is whether the SEM will discourage having Andermani possessions interspersed among its own members. Any planet on the boundary between the Andermani and the SEM would be fair game.


It would make sense for both Manticore and Anderman NOT to have interspersing planets.

And those planets not acceding to some level of control would probably be helping pirates. Manticore seems to rule with a very light hand.
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by Theemile   » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:04 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:
tlb wrote:The only limitation I see to that is whether the SEM will discourage having Andermani possessions interspersed among its own members. Any planet on the boundary between the Andermani and the SEM would be fair game.


It would make sense for both Manticore and Anderman NOT to have interspersing planets.

And those planets not acceding to some level of control would probably be helping pirates. Manticore seems to rule with a very light hand.


David did mention that the Manties were not treating the Silesian territories the same way as the Talbott territories. Annexation might not be an option, it might be mandatory for all 34-ish planets. With the games Silesia has been playing for 400 years, Manticore may not have a choice if they want to be part of the solution going forward.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by Louis R   » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:55 am

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Annexation is optional, and no, systems that don't opt to join the SEM won't be looking over their shoulders at the Andies. Or anybody else, for that matter. Here's the current situation, from House of Steel:

"By contrast, the SEM-administered areas have been treated somewhat more gently. By and large, the Star Empire has allowed local governments to continue functioning, subject to the adoption of personal liberties laws matching those of the Manticoran constitution and monitoring by Manticoran Foreign Office advisors. A small number, however, have been placed under direct Manticoran control, with appointive governors, due to special local circumstances, generally related to residual corruption, cronyism, human rights violations, and support for local brigandage. Each star system will be allowed an individual plebiscite on the decision to become full, permanent members of the Star Empire, on approximately the same terms as the Talbott Cluster, pending the completion of certain specifically defined milestones related to human rights, electoral participation, and government and law enforcement transparency. Under the Silesian Protectorate Act as adopted by Parliament, systems which decline to seek admission or fail to meet the required milestone will be retained permanently in protectorate status, although there is provision under the Act for this to be amended."


Theemile wrote:
ldwechsler wrote:
It would make sense for both Manticore and Anderman NOT to have interspersing planets.

And those planets not acceding to some level of control would probably be helping pirates. Manticore seems to rule with a very light hand.


David did mention that the Manties were not treating the Silesian territories the same way as the Talbott territories. Annexation might not be an option, it might be mandatory for all 34-ish planets. With the games Silesia has been playing for 400 years, Manticore may not have a choice if they want to be part of the solution going forward.
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Re: Manticore Quadrant
Post by Theemile   » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:10 am

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...systems which decline to seek admission or fail to meet the required milestone will be retained permanently in protectorate status, although there is provision under the Act for this to be amended."


So there currently is no clause for system freedom. It's either You progress to, and vote on, full system citizen status, or you stay a junior partner with limited status forever.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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