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Museum ships?

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Museum ships?
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:13 am

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Just a though: with such number of venerable Safeholdian warships that fought during a Holy War on both sides, wouldn't it be proper to preserve some as museum ships? Flagships of most glorious battles (those, who remained afloat, of course), like "Victory", or most decorated ships with longest careers - or even valuable prizes, taken in heavy combat?
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- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

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Re: Museum ships?
Post by Eagleeye   » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:42 pm

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Dilandu wrote:Just a though: with such number of venerable Safeholdian warships that fought during a Holy War on both sides, wouldn't it be proper to preserve some as museum ships? Flagships of most glorious battles (those, who remained afloat, of course), like "Victory", or most decorated ships with longest careers - or even valuable prizes, taken in heavy combat?


Museum ships from the own fleet - maybe. But prizes? I don't know. I think, that would be a bad idea. It could produce too much bad blood; after all, the wounds, hit by the Holy War had barely time to heal. It could be seen as a deliberate way to humiliate the former foes, and there's a short way from humiliation to anger, from anger to deliberate misunderstandings - and from there to a new war. And that's something, nobody really needs at the moment, and certainly Charis don't needs a new war!
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by USMA74   » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:19 am

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The new built Charisian war galleons were not built with seasoned wood as stated in OAR. As a result, most of them must have been starting to rot by the end of HFQ or ATST. Not sure many would be available to be preserved or the money would have been there to pay for their preservation in the midst of the continental-size war described in HFQ and ATST. Especially as naval architecture was changing as fast as the gap between the galley "Royal Charis" in OAR and the pre-dreadnaught "King Haarahlds" and Victory-class cargo ships described in ATST indicates. (Even after the armistice the Charisian Empire had to very carefully build down its military and control expenditures to avoid serious economic repercussions.)

They may have the Royal Charis preserved as a tribute to King Haarshld VII, It was a galley and typically a galley was stored on dry land when not in active service.

Merlin would not think about preserving old historic ships since the Terran Federation navy was a new organization founded only after the federation encountered evidence of the genocide practiced by the Gbaba. That navy lost its ships when they were fighting the Gbaba and didn't have the chance to retire them to be museum ships.

My two cents worth.
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:13 am

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I think that keeping museum ships is a great idea. It starts with Royal Charis then move on to Dreadnought as the testament of the ICN's devotion to duty. Each ship fought and sacrificed when they did not need to, but did so because of their duty.

Next we have the Delthak and Eraystor. Delthak is in fine shape and Eraystor needs to be raised and repaired to some extent. How much it is be repaired will depend on the nature/theme of this exhibit. Soon they'll add Gwylllym Manthyr to that list. Each shows either the sacrifice to duty demanded of ICN personnel, the accomplishments that duty can achieve and the returned loyalty the nation gives its personnel.

And the principal reason for doing this? Why the display of technology children can be exposed to as the learn of their nations' history. Each Imperial nation contributed to those ships and those victories and that is worthy of study. However, those victories were made possible by the progression of technology each of those ships represent.
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by Dauntless   » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:14 pm

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while I agree with the basic idea i'm not sure they have advanced tech to raise the original dreadnought, and the second was captured.

now Dolhar is looking to be one of the more reasonable post war nations so getting it back may not be too difficult, especially if dolhar realise how far behind a River class let alone a KHVII it is.

on the flip side of that coin dreadnought savaged Dolhar's screw galleys, and while copying it will be hard it would be a big step up in making their navy dangerous in a proper blue water fight against anyone but charis.
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:18 pm

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Dauntless wrote:while I agree with the basic idea i'm not sure they have advanced tech to raise the original dreadnought, and the second was captured.

now Dolhar is looking to be one of the more reasonable post war nations so getting it back may not be too difficult, especially if dolhar realise how far behind a River class let alone a KHVII it is.

on the flip side of that coin dreadnought savaged Dolhar's screw galleys, and while copying it will be hard it would be a big step up in making their navy dangerous in a proper blue water fight against anyone but charis.

The ICN took Gorath harbor. Send in the river class ships to town Dreadnaught away. If Dohlar has a problem with that, F'em. They don't leave the symbols of their heroes outside the empire those heroes died to defend.
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by Henry Brown   » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:51 pm

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PeterZ wrote:I think that keeping museum ships is a great idea. It starts with Royal Charis then move on to Dreadnought as the testament of the ICN's devotion to duty. Each ship fought and sacrificed when they did not need to, but did so because of their duty.

Next we have the Delthak and Eraystor. Delthak is in fine shape and Eraystor needs to be raised and repaired to some extent. How much it is be repaired will depend on the nature/theme of this exhibit. Soon they'll add Gwylllym Manthyr to that list. Each shows either the sacrifice to duty demanded of ICN personnel, the accomplishments that duty can achieve and the returned loyalty the nation gives its personnel.

And the principal reason for doing this? Why the display of technology children can be exposed to as the learn of their nations' history. Each Imperial nation contributed to those ships and those victories and that is worthy of study. However, those victories were made possible by the progression of technology each of those ships represent.


I don't think they will be using Delthak or Gwylym Manthyr as museum ships anytime in the immediate future. Right now the ICN still has very few steam powered, armored ships. And yes, they probably will build some more post-war. Because the ICN controlling the sea is critical. Under no circumstances can they allow any other navy to seriously challenge them. But I think build tempos are going to slow way down and the existing steamers will continue in active service for quite a long time. After all if you're only building a few ironclad steamers a year, you're going to want to hold onto the ones you already have.
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:
I don't think they will be using Delthak or Gwylym Manthyr as museum ships anytime in the immediate future. Right now the ICN still has very few steam powered, armored ships. And yes, they probably will build some more post-war. Because the ICN controlling the sea is critical. Under no circumstances can they allow any other navy to seriously challenge them. But I think build tempos are going to slow way down and the existing steamers will continue in active service for quite a long time. After all if you're only building a few ironclad steamers a year, you're going to want to hold onto the ones you already have.

Actually, I think they will build steamers at a strong clip. Whoever they release from the services will get first dibs at the manufacturing jobs to build those ships. Transitioning the economy to enable hiring all those newly released soldiers will require selective public investment or at least investment from the Crown.

Laying down rails, expanding canals, creating new mines and manning the manufactories producing consumer goods all will help smooth the transition between a wartime and peacetime economy.
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by jontom   » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:49 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
Henry Brown wrote:
I don't think they will be using Delthak or Gwylym Manthyr as museum ships anytime in the immediate future. Right now the ICN still has very few steam powered, armored ships. And yes, they probably will build some more post-war. Because the ICN controlling the sea is critical. Under no circumstances can they allow any other navy to seriously challenge them. But I think build tempos are going to slow way down and the existing steamers will continue in active service for quite a long time. After all if you're only building a few ironclad steamers a year, you're going to want to hold onto the ones you already have.

Actually, I think they will build steamers at a strong clip. Whoever they release from the services will get first dibs at the manufacturing jobs to build those ships. Transitioning the economy to enable hiring all those newly released soldiers will require selective public investment or at least investment from the Crown.

Laying down rails, expanding canals, creating new mines and manning the manufactories producing consumer goods all will help smooth the transition between a wartime and peacetime economy.


I expect they'll build more civilian steamers than military, and with a reserve service requirement. Think Liberty ships. In wartime, the shorter transit times for military cargoes will be very useful.
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Re: Museum ships?
Post by Henry Brown   » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:33 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Actually, I think they will build steamers at a strong clip. Whoever they release from the services will get first dibs at the manufacturing jobs to build those ships. Transitioning the economy to enable hiring all those newly released soldiers will require selective public investment or at least investment from the Crown.

Laying down rails, expanding canals, creating new mines and manning the manufactories producing consumer goods all will help smooth the transition between a wartime and peacetime economy.


Are you talking about civilian ships or warships? If you are talking about merchant steamers, then yes I agree with you that there will be a lot of them built.

But I think warship construction is going to slow way down. I think Charis will probably finish the ironclads already under construction. But after that I think they will build the bare minimum number of warships they need.
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