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Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)

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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by Joat42   » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:03 am

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Bill Woods wrote:
runsforcelery wrote: They basically through out their entire missile inventory after what happened to Crandall --- Filaretta still had a bunch of conventional missiles in his capital ship magazines; nobody after him did --- which also cost a bunch of money. They had to commit to their new construction programs . . . which cost a bunch of money.
I have been a bit questioning of the Sollies having "literally millions of missiles" for each of their Buccaneer TFs so quickly. I get that the League is huge, but apparently the missiles are all (or mostly?) coming from one system. To get them designed, built (from the existing factories) and delivered to FF bases around the League in a few months seems like pushing it.

Perhaps Technodyne with some prodding from MA had been producing missiles beforehand since the MA wanted the SLN to have a club big enough to a) have a fighting chance against the GA, b) have missiles to spend on Operation Buccaneer (with the intent of producing EE violations)

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by isaac_newton   » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:06 am

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Joat42 wrote:
Bill Woods wrote: SNIP I have been a bit questioning of the Sollies having "literally millions of missiles" for each of their Buccaneer TFs so quickly. I get that the League is huge, but apparently the missiles are all (or mostly?) coming from one system. To get them designed, built (from the existing factories) and delivered to FF bases around the League in a few months seems like pushing it.

Perhaps Technodyne with some prodding from MA had been producing missiles beforehand since the MA wanted the SLN to have a club big enough to a) have a fighting chance against the GA, b) have missiles to spend on Operation Buccaneer (with the intent of producing EE violations)


Interesting thought... so maybe now looking toward a long term war between SLN and GA - rather in same way that they were pushing for a long slugging fest between Haven & Manticore.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:56 am

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Now the SLN will see what a Manticoran Destroyer can do!

The Rolland can not punch out most much less all of the remaining SLN BCs.

The Rolland can use carefully gleaned signal intelligence from the recon drones, relayed FTL, to identify which SLN BC is occupied by the current commander of the SLN task force. The Rolland can successvively destroy the BC upon which the current CO is embarked until they get a CO with a concience or a brain.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by bert953   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:08 pm

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I have also only read the snippets & the 1/3 of UH, waiting for the actual paper book (and oh man is it hard to wait....) Here are some thoughts I had before reading snippet #13:

1. I’m wondering why the Hypatians never released news of Vice Admiral Hajdu’s intent to launch operation Buccaneer 1st before, then after the 36 hour deadline to the public. Word had obviously gotten out that there was a large force of SLN warships in orbit and along with the frenzy of evacuation, it shouldn’t be too hard for anyone paying attention to add 2+2 together. It was obvious that the Sollies were holding the “Sword of Damocles” over Hypatia.

I can understand not wanting to panic people, especially those at risk in the orbitals, but when the un-extended deadline was impending, why not let the citizenry know the SLN’s nefarious plans. I’d think that they’d release the complete conversations with both Hajdu and Yang-O’Grady so that as many ships as possible could spread the word far and wide of the Sollies new terrorist strategy.

2. Why did the Manties have SLN Camperdown so far down in the targeting queue? They would have identified Hajdu’s flagship early in his declaration of intent with Vangelis. Why not target Camperdown early, like Michelle Henke did to Byng so that Hajdu’s not around to make command decisions. The loss of the chain of command along with the psychological effects of the SLN death toll MIGHT cause whoever’s left in charge to reconsider Buccaneer in Hypatia, at least.

3. Part of Buccanneer is Operation Parthian shot….. hit & run targeting of orbitals from extreme range in order to avoid any Manty warships that could call them to task for their actions. Eradini violation waiting to happen. How would this protocol affect the thinking of whoever is left in charge now that Hajdu was blown to kingdom come?

4. Looking fwd to RMN’s response re: target selection criteria for the Sollies, starting with Teradyne.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by bert953   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:25 pm

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I think that in the previous book, Honor said that after Filareta and Operation Raging Justice, the GA declared war on the Solarian League. So Gogunov is being reactive, and crying "no fair", they hit us we wasnt lookin. Oh why was the SLN in Hypatia again..... ah I remember; to teach someone who couldnt fight back a lesson!
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:05 pm

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bert953 wrote:I can understand not wanting to panic people, especially those at risk in the orbitals, but when the un-extended deadline was impending, why not let the citizenry know the SLN’s nefarious plans.


Approx six million people on the orbital habitats that all feel like they should be on that last shuttle before the deadline.

'Panic' is such a small word for the effect.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by Bill Woods   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:53 pm

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bert953 wrote:1. I’m wondering why the Hypatians never released news of Vice Admiral Hajdu’s intent to launch operation Buccaneer 1st before, then after the 36 hour deadline to the public. Word had obviously gotten out that there was a large force of SLN warships in orbit and along with the frenzy of evacuation, it shouldn’t be too hard for anyone paying attention to add 2+2 together. It was obvious that the Sollies were holding the “Sword of Damocles” over Hypatia.

I can understand not wanting to panic people, especially those at risk in the orbitals, but when the un-extended deadline was impending, why not let the citizenry know the SLN’s nefarious plans. I’d think that they’d release the complete conversations with both Hajdu and Yang-O’Grady so that as many ships as possible could spread the word far and wide of the Sollies new terrorist strategy.
The government told people some version of what was happening. Of necessity:
“We go on doing what we’re already doing,” Vangelis replied heavily. “We’ve got every orbit-capable shuttle, cutter, runabout, and garbage scow in the system moving everyone we possibly can in the time Hajdu’s so graciously given us. There’s already been some panic — you just can’t organize an evacuation on this kind of scale without telling people why you’re evacuating them — but so far, it’s manageable. Commodore Nisyrios’s people are providing armed parties for the major habitats’ boat bays to prevent — we hope — things from getting too out of hand, and we’re beginning with the major residential habitats. We should — should, probably — be able to get between eighty and eighty-five percent of the residents down to the planetary surface in thirty-six hours. That’s almost a hundred and nine million people.”
[emph added.]

And even civilians understand what's going to happen to people who don't evacuate:
“Third shift’s due to take over pretty soon. When they do, everybody on Second’ll get a chance for some rest, and those of us with families will be sent on to join them.”

No doubt burning a house to the ground was an expensive way to get rid of the cockroaches, but if the place was going to burn anyway, you might as well make sure as few roaches as possible made it out.
----
Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:08 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
bert953 wrote:I can understand not wanting to panic people, especially those at risk in the orbitals, but when the un-extended deadline was impending, why not let the citizenry know the SLN’s nefarious plans.


Approx six million people on the orbital habitats that all feel like they should be on that last shuttle before the deadline.

'Panic' is such a small word for the effect.



The folks aboard the space stations knew exactly what was going on, and Hajdu had no interest in keeping anyone who got out of the system from giving their version of what happened there. Obviously, the entire hysterical report would be wildly exaggerated to paint the fleet commander as some sort of crazed, bloodthirsty maniac instead of a deliberate, methodical individual who gave the system authorities absolutely all the time he could, under the circumstances. It was scarcely his fault that they dawdled so disgracefully and were so ill-organized that they couldn't evacuate their people even after he extended the deadline no less than twice! In the meantime, however, any other treason-minded SL member systems --- and any neutrals so vicious-minded as to be neutral in the GA's favor by continuing to trade with them rather than the benevolent, benign Solarian League would get the messages that they'd damned better mend their ways. And the more "exaggerated" the reports the better, from that perspective.

The Hypatian government had told its people why the stations were being evacuated, hence the entire scene with the Gryphon gang bangers. They knew what was going to happen if they didn't get off the station.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor Snippet #13 (really this time)
Post by Randomiser   » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:52 am

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bert953 wrote:
2. Why did the Manties have SLN Camperdown so far down in the targeting queue?


Task force of just under 100 Battlecruisers plus screen. Some of them have to be less exposed than others, including the flagship, don't you think? And the Manties couldn't exactly afford to use missiles unproductively. I would guess the RMN were shooting their way though to SLNS Camperdown
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