[Spoiler - UH] utube snippet

cthia wrote:In SoV textev bore witness to the many medical upgrades that were given to Harahap. He has the healing power that Bardasano displayed. He has thermal vision, or whatever ability the augmentation to his eyesight contains. And others. Just like spent nuclear weapons leave their own tell-tale signature from the flavor of the uranium that can be traced back to its owners, can't Manticore's medical establishment trace the gene signatures of the nanites given to Damien and come up with Detweiler? The Detweilers were the only people working on the dangerous side of the genetic fence.

IOW, there's proof in the genetic pudding that was cooked up for him.

I'm pretty sure those were nano-tech, not genetic, although I wasn't able to find the text-ev.

cthia wrote:In SoV textev bore witness to the many medical upgrades that were given to Harahap. He has the healing power that Bardasano displayed. He has thermal vision, or whatever ability the augmentation to his eyesight contains. And others. Just like spent nuclear weapons leave their own tell-tale signature from the flavor of the uranium that can be traced back to its owners, can't Manticore's medical establishment trace the gene signatures of the nanites given to Damien and come up with Detweiler? The Detweilers were the only people working on the dangerous side of the genetic fence.

IOW, there's proof in the genetic pudding that was cooked up for him.

Umm... no. They could probably guess that Mesa gave him the upgrades, but that's sort of obvious. What would even point back to Detweiler?

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:In SoV textev bore witness to the many medical upgrades that were given to Harahap. He has the healing power that Bardasano displayed. He has thermal vision, or whatever ability the augmentation to his eyesight contains. And others. Just like spent nuclear weapons leave their own tell-tale signature from the flavor of the uranium that can be traced back to its owners, can't Manticore's medical establishment trace the gene signatures of the nanites given to Damien and come up with Detweiler? The Detweilers were the only people working on the dangerous side of the genetic fence.

IOW, there's proof in the genetic pudding that was cooked up for him.

Umm... no. They could probably guess that Mesa gave him the upgrades, but that's sort of obvious. What would even point back to Detweiler?

Right. Remember that Manpower and its work are part of the onion. Of course, geneticists will probably find more than a few items about him but he probably won't know all that much. It's not his field. The interesting thing would be if they were done as part of his original genetic makeup or as therapies. The quick heal would be very valuable for GA's troops.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

cthia wrote:In SoV textev bore witness to the many medical upgrades that were given to Harahap. He has the healing power that Bardasano displayed. He has thermal vision, or whatever ability the augmentation to his eyesight contains. And others. Just like spent nuclear weapons leave their own tell-tale signature from the flavor of the uranium that can be traced back to its owners, can't Manticore's medical establishment trace the gene signatures of the nanites given to Damien and come up with Detweiler? The Detweilers were the only people working on the dangerous side of the genetic fence.

IOW, there's proof in the genetic pudding that was cooked up for him.

Umm... no. They could probably guess that Mesa gave him the upgrades, but that's sort of obvious. What would even point back to Detweiler?

ldwechsler wrote:Right. Remember that Manpower and its work are part of the onion. Of course, geneticists will probably find more than a few items about him but he probably won't know all that much. It's not his field. The interesting thing would be if they were done as part of his original genetic makeup or as therapies. The quick heal would be very valuable for GA's troops.

It would be invaluable to Honor as well, or anyone else who doesn't regenerate, if it doesn't require genetic predisposition.

JohnRoth wrote:

cthia wrote:In SoV textev bore witness to the many medical upgrades that were given to Harahap. He has the healing power that Bardasano displayed. He has thermal vision, or whatever ability the augmentation to his eyesight contains. And others. Just like spent nuclear weapons leave their own tell-tale signature from the flavor of the uranium that can be traced back to its owners, can't Manticore's medical establishment trace the gene signatures of the nanites given to Damien and come up with Detweiler? The Detweilers were the only people working on the dangerous side of the genetic fence.

IOW, there's proof in the genetic pudding that was cooked up for him.

I'm pretty sure those were nano-tech, not genetic, although I wasn't able to find the text-ev.

He was also given a prolong booster. Is that nanite based?

I agree that the vision enhancement and quick heal are nanite based. It is why I said "gene signatures of the nanites" given unto him. IOW, I thought those particular nanites worked by recoding certain gene sequences. If not, then he'd have to be given constant upgrades as the nanites shelf life nears their end. Which could be the case, since menstrual nanites have to be "changed out" twice a year.

I would suspect that whatever version of Prolong Harlpa has, it came though his association with OFS and possibly even at his homeworld.

He has been in Manticore custody for a fair amount of time. They will already have taken all sorts of samples and run tests for a long list of reasons, not the least of which would be to identify him (for Manticore and possibly to cross reference him with captured OFS databases). He has been an Alignment agent and was essentialy doing exactly the same thing for OFS prior to that. In the course of his interrogation, all sorts of things have surfaced and ONI is going to want to test for another list of things- much more non-standard and probably driven by things like knowing about the nano-assassin/compulsion problem.
Does he have it? Can they identify something like what they recovered from known victims of it? What is his gene structure like? Does he have any inhancements added on or identifyable special procedures?
It's not like Manticore has to effitively do an autopsy to look into this stuff. A really rigouris medical exam- say the kind you give a Naval recruit, compleat with scans, blood, urine, stool sampels, scans (medical scans in the Honovererse as so much better that what we can do today) would be just the basic level. This is a POW- well, perhaps captured spy is more accurate- and there is not a lot he would be able to do about objecting because they "need" to confirm he is healthy, isn't in any danger or perhaps pose a danger to Manticorain personel. They probaly are going to have to otherwise tread lightly not to trigger and self-suicide or auto-suicide addition to his body or mind but he survied being captured, disarmed and shipped back to Manticore.
A question arises if Manticore and others use the kind of "update or die" treatment that a lot of Alignment lower level operatives have and, amoung other things, is a backstop to anyone not pulled out in Houdini and will "just die" when their individual update isn't done.

We shall see.

ldwechsler wrote:

Right. Remember that Manpower and its work are part of the onion. Of course, geneticists will probably find more than a few items about him but he probably won't know all that much. It's not his field. The interesting thing would be if they were done as part of his original genetic makeup or as therapies. The quick heal would be very valuable for GA's troops.

If I remember correctly they are self-replicating nannies which are viewed as incredibly dangerous. Specifically its feared they'll mutate into a dangerous uncontrolled version as happened in the Final War. So while researching them might provide valuable insights, these are basically super-Ebola (as far as the GA is concerned). There is also potential the nannies have a buried suicide command, or command to turn it into a plague! I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to purge the nannies.

Furthermore, distributing those nannies to their troops would be a very bad idea for another reason. The Malign could weaponize their nannies and make it look like a "mutant" version. Then it looks like Manticore's wanton disregard for civilians unleashed a super-plague on the galaxy. Sure, the GA might think they know better, but they'll have no hard evidence.

On the flip-side using tech they don't really understand has the potential to go badly, so it could mutate anyway and turn into a super-plague. Manticore might think they know better, but they'll actually just be tricking themselves!

There is one very nice upside though. A really easy way for Mesan infiltrators to make a crap-ton of cash is by having a company they're invested in "invent" a prolong booster or something. Now the Mesan infiltrators go from a decent chunk of money to an absurd amount of money, when everyone across the entire galaxy buys the booster. Some people inventing Mesan tech will be a huge red flag.

ldwechsler wrote:
Right. Remember that Manpower and its work are part of the onion.

Um. Manpower is not part of the onion. They're an outside organization that's infiltrated and controlled by the MAlign, but the Manpower management etc. has no idea that the MAlign exists. A lot of Manpower's research has been taken and used by the MAlign, and it's used as a stalking horse to keep people from suspecting the existence of the MAlign but that's the extent of the connection.

And ... their usefulness is over, so they'll be exterminated with extreme prejudice over the next few years.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:...The Detweilers were the only people working on the dangerous side of the genetic fence.

Not exactly. Leonard Detweiler left Beowuf to colonize Mesa with "like minded" people. There were several hundred, or so, people working on the dangerous side of the "genetic fence."

I'm sure that there were even more "like-minded" immigrants over the years since Mesa was colonized.

Over the centuries, enough outside DNA has been imported into "improving" the Detweiler genome that Leonard, himself, probably would qualify as a "Detweiler" by current LRPB standards.

You're not thinking like an ONI agent. At least not like a Manty ONI agent, vested by Pat Givens.

Detweiler and the number of people known to be dabbling in the black arts is just one filter. And that one filter has already reduced the "persons of interest" to simply "several hundred" as you say? Out of billions scattered about the Honorverse. What a helluva first filter for a fine first step.

Then, the next filter would be financial background checks. An operation of this magnitude has deep pockets. That fact should be obvious even to idiots like the Solarians. It was obvious to Harahap, who deduced as much in the available info dump. And if Harahap can put these things together, so can RMN intelligence. How many of the several hundred people capable of that kind of intelligence also has the same cavernous bank accounts?

Also, the nanites themselves are technology that can be analyzed if a sample can be acquired.

"Cross reference your findings with everyone who wore green underwear on Friday." That's the intel probably available on some planets -- like the shockingly unfathomable, privacy forfeited planets out on the "Verge of Way Beyond."*

Now, to be sure. Detweiler would have covered his financial tracks. BUT! None of the other "persons of interest" even remotely, have the depth of pockets needed to feed this hidden entity. BUT AGAIN! Where are the Detweilers who were known to also dabble in the black arts? They were the number one name in the old days, when the feud originally began between Leonard and Beowulf.

That makes three, three filters that ONI inexperienced cthia has come up with. I'm certain Pat Givens would use many more different types of filters to reduce the playing field. (I could state what some of those might be, but then I'll have to kill some of you, since rank hath its privileges. LOL)

*We've seen glimpses of these computers on tv...

"Now cross-reference X with XY."

"That's a hit sir! That narrows down the possibilities to simply 4 outfits. Two of them are ours."

JohnRoth wrote:

ldwechsler wrote:
Right. Remember that Manpower and its work are part of the onion.

Um. Manpower is not part of the onion. They're an outside organization that's infiltrated and controlled by the MAlign, but the Manpower management etc. has no idea that the MAlign exists. A lot of Manpower's research has been taken and used by the MAlign, and it's used as a stalking horse to keep people from suspecting the existence of the MAlign but that's the extent of the connection.

And ... their usefulness is over, so they'll be exterminated with extreme prejudice over the next few years.

But if someone looks at Harahap's DNA they would assume he was modified by Manpower, etc. To some degree they might be considered the very outside skin. Just a matter of how the organizational diagrams are drawn.