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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:58 pm

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:If that is true, Honor can't be Queen. You can't have a functional Empire and Honor as Queen. They are two exclusive results -- XOR not OR.

cthia wrote:Why not? Care to elucidate?


Honor is too far down the line of succession. G.W.E.N Archer is ahead of her and unlikely to be at a "Winton Family Gathering."

Honor might make it as part of a regency council, but before she could become Queen, you'd have to kill off one, if not both, of her spouses (who are ahead of her in the succession) along with half or more of the RMN officer corp.

Can I borrow a *sigh* from someone? I'm experiencing a shortage.

Gwen Archer is dead. He wanted to come home for this event as well. He came home when word of Michelle going home reached him. I see I have to attempt to supply a plausible reason that they all came home. Many are having trouble accepting the premise of the thread and proceeding from there. It happened people. The MAlign are as astounded as you are. But they are still dancing a jig.

Perhaps Michelle was to be proposed to and an offer of marriage right on the spot was to follow spearheaded by another one of Elizabeth's orchestrated type of shotgun weddings similar to what was pulled on Honor. Honor had her hand in this as well, as payback. We don't know that Michelle wasn't in love on the side and hid it from most everyone else because of the delicacy of the union. Perhaps it's an Andermani? And everyone wants to be there to tease her and to see it for themselves. And Elizabeth, ever wanting to kill two political birds with one stone was up to something, politically. Fifth in line for succession and marrying an Andermani commoner has the political overtones and potential of being big.

Besides, this is the biggest most popular family reunion of them all and many were naturally invited for various reasons known only to the Crown.

I don't deny that protocol across the board had been broken. But this is a sentimental event coinciding with a political move only Elizabeth and a select few knew of. A temporary replacement was sent out to Michelle to relieve her for this honor. And don't think for a moment that Elizabeth failed to reprimand many that were at the function that shouldn't have been there. Yet, in the heat of the moment and the sentimental human element, "Oh what the hell."

The problem again, was the human element. Such an event bent the grapevine from its weight. Communications' channels were abused, laxed. This is an exciting time that flooded even the most unusual communications channels with activity. The MA had informants.

When word of such a gathering and grapevine bending event radiated all the way across the galaxy and reached Anisimovna's ears, I can imagine the conversation she had with Detweiler...

"You mean we can get the government and many in line for succession?"

"Yes. So many are rumored to be going home, that we could very well hit the lottery."

"So this is the opportunity you've been waiting for? This is ripe for your "Operation Dismiss?"

"It promises to be the stuff of legends."


Aside:
By the way. Honor was en route as well, along with Benjamin. They barely missed the fun by the sound of Tester's gun.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:00 pm

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cthia wrote:"You mean we can get the government and many in line for succession?"


I think you are severely underestimating the size of the Winton succession chain, and overestimating Honor's (non)place in it.

I would guess that a majority of those born into the Manticoran Nobility rank ahead of Honor in the line of succession. Many of those wouldn't attend a Winton family function unless you put them in shackles and chains to physically carry them there.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:52 pm

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:"You mean we can get the government and many in line for succession?"


I think you are severely underestimating the size of the Winton succession chain, and overestimating Honor's (non)place in it.

I would guess that a majority of those born into the Manticoran Nobility rank ahead of Honor in the line of succession. Many of those wouldn't attend a Winton family function unless you put them in shackles and chains to physically carry them there.
Yep. Yet those stodgy old fellows did that day. Believe it or not, they were actually having fun. And had promised to do it again. Perhaps turn over a new leaf and make it a habit as was the promise of that same old stale, New Year's Resolution.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:10 pm

cthia
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It amazes me how much alike Anisimovna and Honor are. Aldona is exactly what she would be, if Honor had been born an Alpha.

Also as the Salamander's counterpart, it was suggested as praise to Anisimovna, "You must have meticulously planned it beforehand and knew full-well that we were going to get such a slate wiping strike!"

Much as Honor allowed her bridge to think she knew Theisman would flinch first and break off against her death ride. So too did Anisimovna, "I'll just allow them their fantasy."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Potato   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:43 pm

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Then Parliament gets together and selects a new line from the senior Lords to be the monarch. Oh, but wait, you said that you are killing them too! Then Parliament goes and selects the second senior. Oh, but you are killing them too! Then Parliament goes and selects the third senior. Oh, but you are killing them too!

Do you understand just how absurd this sounds? You are killing everyone ahead of Honor, and their families! They are not all going to magically be in one place! Hell, all of Congress and their families are not in one place ever. But your magical "surgical" strike is going to take them all out? Bullshit. Hence I agree with Weird Harold's point: if the strike is big enough to get all the possible people ahead of Honor, then it must have devastated all the planets in the Manticore system and there is no more Star Empire; otherwise this attack is "small" enough that many people missed it. It cannot be both.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:59 pm

cthia
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Potato wrote:Then Parliament gets together and selects a new line from the senior Lords to be the monarch. Oh, but wait, you said that you are killing them too! Then Parliament goes and selects the second senior. Oh, but you are killing them too! Then Parliament goes and selects the third senior. Oh, but you are killing them too!

Do you understand just how absurd this sounds? You are killing everyone ahead of Honor, and their families! They are not all going to magically be in one place! Hell, all of Congress and their families are not in one place ever. But your magical "surgical" strike is going to take them all out? Bullshit. Hence I agree with Weird Harold's point: if the strike is big enough to get all the possible people ahead of Honor, then it must have devastated all the planets in the Manticore system and there is no more Star Empire; otherwise this attack is "small" enough that many people missed it. It cannot be both.

Referring to the premise of the thread as bullshit does not represent "a modicum of decorum" yet has thus far failed to bring out the Duckk.

So, pump your brakes Tater. Your fries are about to burn.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:20 pm

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cthia wrote:Referring to the premise of the thread as bullshit does not represent "a modicum of decorum" yet has thus far failed to bring out the Duckk.


That doesn't change the fact that your initial premise is implausible to the Nth degree. There is no way to bring about your stated result without destroying nearly the entire population of the Old Kingdom, including all of the Nobility in the RMN, RMMC, Merchant Marine, Army, Diplomatic Corps, and every other off-planet vocation or avocation.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:29 am

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He's the honorverse social expert version of skimper the honorverse tech guru.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by crewdude48   » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:34 am

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Let us do some math here. There have been 16 monarchs of the Kingdom. That means 15 generations have been born into the line of succession. Considering that it is a mostly open frontierish world, I feel we would be extremely safe assuming a birthrate of 2.5 children per couple. It is probably higher, but lets stick with that. 15^2.5=871.4

That means that there are, in this generation alone over eight hundred people somewhere in the line for the throne. Plus any parents or grandparents still alive would, with out a doubt, bump us up over a thousand.

Then we have the three Grand Duchies who would out rank Honor. According to the Wiki there are 14 more Duchies mentioned in the books that would all out rank Duchy Harrington. One of these is a life title, and one more basically runs in the Winton family. That leaves 12. Even if we assume that half of those were life titles or have merged into other titles, it still leaves us with nine titles that outrank Honor's, and would be more likely to be picked as a new monarch.

Even if we reduce the number of people in those lines to 500 to account for overlap, that is another 4500 people who would be senior to Honor. So this party of yours has over 5500 people, and my numbers are almost with out a doubt on the low side. That is the entire crew of a US Navy nuclear aircraft carrier, including air wing. It is going to include Queens and princes, accountants and lawers, sailors, factory workers, petty criminals, a payed duelist until recently, even people who's families have left the system generations ago. And EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS TO BE THERE! Not. Going. To. Happen.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Potato   » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:39 am

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cthia wrote:Referring to the premise of the thread as bullshit does not represent "a modicum of decorum" yet has thus far failed to bring out the Duckk.

So, pump your brakes Tater. Your fries are about to burn.


I recall more than one occasion where you have said verbatim "shit happens". And the forum rules allows "PG-13" language. So I feel just fine with how I worded my post.
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