Guns, Guns Guns

Techically he wasn't a mass shooter. Just a shooter. (Fuck, that's weirdly American just there. Just a Shooter")
But really it's beside the point.

So 1 in how many?

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If the possibility that potential victims may be carrying concealed weapons is a deterrent to gun assault, why then does the US have a very much higher incidence of gun assault than any other developed country? We have a 1 in 29 chance of being assaulted by a gun compared to the US yet virtually no one here carries a concealed gun.

Sorry, gcomeau but we won't see eye to eye. You insist I celebrate something I do not just because I recognize a man exercising his Second Amendment right to defend himself. I believe you are viewing the post and the article through your own bias.

Similar gun control laws exist in Scotland as downunder and yet they have similar per capita assault stats as we do. Guns do not cause assaults. Yet assaults and gun crimes are much lower in those parts of the US where concealed carry is prevalent. Chicago is a prime example.

Bottom line is that crime is not caused by guns. They are tools which both criminals and law abiding citizens can both use. They are tools guaranteed to be available to citizens by our Constitution so that we can protect ourselves.

Daryl wrote:If the possibility that potential victims may be carrying concealed weapons is a deterrent to gun assault, why then does the US have a very much higher incidence of gun assault than any other developed country? We have a 1 in 29 chance of being assaulted by a gun compared to the US yet virtually no one here carries a concealed gun.

PeterZ wrote:Similar gun control laws exist in Scotland as downunder and yet they have similar per capita assault stats as we do.

You realize the definition of what counts as an "assault" is *widely* variable and comparing those stats across nations is nearly impossible to do in a meaningful manner? Unlike, say, shootings and homicides where there is relatively little room for nation to nation reinterpretation of what exactly that means.

Guns do not cause assaults. Yet assaults and gun crimes are much lower in those parts of the US where concealed carry is prevalent. Chicago is a prime example.

Bottom line is that crime is not caused by guns. They are tools which both criminals and law abiding citizens can both use. They are tools guaranteed to be available to citizens by our Constitution so that we can protect ourselves.

Protect in the sense of "a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State..."

Not in the sense of "how dare you try to pass gun regulations!? The Constitution!!!!"

Did I say restricted availability of all weapons? Did I say unlimited use of any gun? I said available to use in self defense. So much wiggle room there for one to limit gun use its not even funny.

Just to back up what Peter is trying to get across!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/07/02/gun-owner-sees-robbery-suspect-take-female-clerk-hostage-and-decides-whether-to-take-a-very-risky-shot/
So what country or state is gcomeau from? In the US, we have the progressive/liberals that think Christians and conservatives are doing the terrorist attacks. We can not even point out here on this forum that Radical Muslims or Radical Jihadists are carrying out terror attacks. We are profiling them for being Muslim. Anytime a domestic terror attack happens they attempt to reclassify as work place violence or something else. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/06/30/cruz-tears-into-dhs-chief-over-systematic-scrubbing-of-radical-islam-during-contentious-exchange/The next day, the liberals/progressives are trying to enact more gun laws and usurp our constitutional rights. It's ok for the Obama administration to edit the 911 tapes of the Orlando shooting when the domestic terrorist says Allah the liberals/progressives put in God. Also, they removed the portion where he pledged himself to ISIS. The only reason the original tapes were released because the local police department cried foul publicly and that forced Obama administration to release the unedited tapes!

PeterZ wrote:Did I say restricted availability of all weapons? Did I say unlimited use of any gun? I said available to use in self defense. So much wiggle room there for one to limit gun use its not even funny.

Of course the American Christians aren't performing terrorist attacks. Oh sure there's the odd crazy lone wolf, or the entirely justified 'incidents' at anortion clinics, but there not terrorists.

Unlike the muslim extreemists who are shooting so many people un America for no reasin but yay Allah.

Oh wait.

Mostly they are all crazies. It's the right wing news that makes the false assumptions and clasifications based on their own religious beliefs and not on such pesky things as facts.

Actually, usually the facts don't get to come out. Orlando seems to be an exception in that regard.

What we do know, well believe we know, is that he was a gay man with huge amounts of self hate generated from his far right wing religious parents/up bringing who did something, well horrible, to try and get away from his true self.

Muslim or Christian made no difference in his case. Both severly repressed his homosexuality and it was that repressed homosexuality in a fundie religious context that led to the shooting.

But Fox et al will never admit that, because he was a Muslim.

In a way it's like Josh Dugger.
A sex obsessed person who has his obsession seriously repressed by fundie right wing religion.
What happens, sexual offense, adultary, lashing out at those like him (without admitting that he was that way inclined if course)

Sure the idiot from Orlando went a whole huge step further. But then so many others in the US did too. We just never really hear about why.

Or in some cases, Martin Bryant for example, we never reall can know why even if we can ask them.

My point. I object to the automatic muslim shooter is a terrorist christian shooter is a lone wolf.
Even if it's obvious that the muslim was nuts and the christian was a terrorist.


Oh. And as for changing Allah to God. You do know that Allah is the arabic word for God don't you, and if you're translating a transcript from arabic into english then you translate the whole thing?

But sure, accurate transcriptions and translations must be an Obama plot to keep the people properly informed.

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Except, the muslims are killing en mass, people who are gay, agnostic, atheist, or different religion. Correct me if I am wrong but the muslims in America are part of the left or least vote lock stock and barrel for the progressives/liberals. So what were the shooters from San Bernadino? Let's see, they were Muslim extremists. They hated Americans. They got around the gun laws by having a fellow Muslim buy the firearms.

Are you so stupid not to understand what the Obama administration was doing? Liberal or Republican should understand by editing the tapes into a politically correct manner that they are totally spinning the story. Please wake up and smell the coffee. Remove those Rose colored glasses! Do you want political correctness or honesty from the government. I for one want honesty! By the way, it was the fear of profiling that allowed this attack to succeed. Disney called the FBI about this individual. A gun store owner also alerted the FBI about this individual. It was political correctness that ultimately allowed this incident to happen. I know it was the gun that caused the problem. Well what if he used a suicide vest...same result.

It's not the Christians that are committing mass killings in the Middle East. Oh! By the way, the shooter spoke English...what a naive individual you are by trying to justify the editing of the transcripts. Please at least come with a better argument than that.

Annachie wrote:Of course the American Christians aren't performing terrorist attacks. Oh sure there's the odd crazy lone wolf, or the entirely justified 'incidents' at anortion clinics, but there not terrorists.

Unlike the muslim extreemists who are shooting so many people un America for no reasin but yay Allah.

Oh wait.

Mostly they are all crazies. It's the right wing news that makes the false assumptions and clasifications based on their own religious beliefs and not on such pesky things as facts.

Actually, usually the facts don't get to come out. Orlando seems to be an exception in that regard.

What we do know, well believe we know, is that he was a gay man with huge amounts of self hate generated from his far right wing religious parents/up bringing who did something, well horrible, to try and get away from his true self.

Muslim or Christian made no difference in his case. Both severly repressed his homosexuality and it was that repressed homosexuality in a fundie religious context that led to the shooting.

But Fox et al will never admit that, because he was a Muslim.

In a way it's like Josh Dugger.
A sex obsessed person who has his obsession seriously repressed by fundie right wing religion.
What happens, sexual offense, adultary, lashing out at those like him (without admitting that he was that way inclined if course)

Sure the idiot from Orlando went a whole huge step further. But then so many others in the US did too. We just never really hear about why.

Or in some cases, Martin Bryant for example, we never reall can know why even if we can ask them.

My point. I object to the automatic muslim shooter is a terrorist christian shooter is a lone wolf.
Even if it's obvious that the muslim was nuts and the christian was a terrorist.


Oh. And as for changing Allah to God. You do know that Allah is the arabic word for God don't you, and if you're translating a transcript from arabic into english then you translate the whole thing?

But sure, accurate transcriptions and translations must be an Obama plot to keep the people properly informed.

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How many mass shootings in the US? How many are actual fundamentalist muslim attacks? Isn't it true that your own police shoot far more innocent people than all terroists of whatever religion?
Actually the christians are killing hundreds of people continually in the middle east. If they aren't then all the airstrikes are being wasted. That's the whole point of assametric warfare.
Any killing of innocent people is wrong, but mainland US doesn't seem to have an overall outbreak of muslim terrorism. We are commerating the 100 years since the Somme, 20,000 British soldiers died on the first day. That is a significant death toll.