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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Self Protection Reality Check ...
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:05 pm

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Tenshinai wrote:Selfdelusion isn´t very pretty, no matter how much you dress it up and put lipstick on it.

Actually, in that situation, weapons would be almost required.
Look at Terry Pratchett's Assassin School. Everyone went around armed and the result was that everyone was polite, since they all knew hundreds of ways to kill people and didn't want to provoke someone into using a way they hadn't studied to inhume them.
Think of it as the ultimate in Darwin's Evolution Theory. Anyone insane enough to believe they can take on dozens of armed people at once simply will not be around to reproduce, therefore their arrogance won't get passed onto the next generation.
After several dozen generations (and kids being raised on Grandpa's "when I was young, Mad Ol Frankie finally snapped 'cause all da girls didna like da way he neva bathed an started shootin', so we had ta put a bullet tween 'is eyes" stories), the local culture would have either settled on extreme politeness or be wiped out.
...or they could have turned themselves into the Legions of Moros...
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Re: Self Protection Reality Check ...
Post by Daryl   » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:57 pm

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I grew up in a similar situation. We also have too many levels of government, although our federal government is proportionately more powerfull.
As a teenager living on an outback station (remote ranch) I had a military style rifle on a rack in my ute (pickup), and a number on open racks in the house.

Three differences though, city people didn't act that way then, our gun laws have been progressively much tightened over the past 50 years since then, and concealable guns (pistols & revolvers) were and are rare.


HB of CJ wrote:One of the few things our United States Federal Government is supposed to do is to provide for the national defense.

Our 50 States have their own government. There job is to provide the few things not provided by the Federal Government.

Then we have County Government. They are supposed to provide essential services not provided by the two already mentioned.

Then we have our local town government. Not much to do at all. What about protecting the individual citizen from all harm?

Our Courts have ruled many times that any government or agency only has the duty to protect the general population. Not the one.

Not the individual. So, who protects you and me? Individually? The answer is yourself. How much protection do you need?

Enough to keep from harm. Our nation has a rich history of the rugged individual. The Wild Wild West and so forth. Most true.

Out here in SW OR USA (about 43N, 123W) we have no local law enforcement. As a result most of us carry personal weapons.

Some carry big knives. Very lethal up close. Some carry handguns. Do not bring a knife to a gun fight. Guns are good.

Lots of us carry REAL assault rifles in our vehicles locked up. Quick access. WHY? Because we need them. Wild Wild West.

This is a rare thing inside the USA. Does not signify elsewhere worldwide. This is our situation. Natural law. Feels good.

Now you know a little bit more. All Oregon, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply. This means all this stuff is legal for us.
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Reality in SW Oregon, USA ...
Post by HB of CJ   » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:38 pm

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Of course we do from time get fish kissers and tree huggers from the big cities who still believe government will always be there to save their day. Our reality here is that we have no law enforcement at all.

None. Special situation. Josephine County Oregon. Nobody to save you but yourself. Yep. Probably difficult for some to comprehend or understand, particularly physical wimps or cry babies from nanny nations.

It does rub hard to just wait to be assaulted or robbed when timely police intervention is hours away or not available at all. Of course some believe socialism to have more power than a good .44 revolver.
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Re: Reality in SW Oregon, USA ...
Post by Donnachaidh   » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:34 pm

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I'll be honest with you, it's hard to have any sympathy about the lack of law enforcement when Josephine County did it to itself about 4 years ago http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/josephine_county_begins_disman.html

HB of CJ wrote:Of course we do from time get fish kissers and tree huggers from the big cities who still believe government will always be there to save their day. Our reality here is that we have no law enforcement at all.

None. Special situation. Josephine County Oregon. Nobody to save you but yourself. Yep. Probably difficult for some to comprehend or understand, particularly physical wimps or cry babies from nanny nations.

It does rub hard to just wait to be assaulted or robbed when timely police intervention is hours away or not available at all. Of course some believe socialism to have more power than a good .44 revolver.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:16 am

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Somewhat of a circular argument to have to have guns for personal defence, because so many people have guns.
The difference between my country upbringing and HB's may be illustrated by the composition of our arsenals at the time. Rifles and shotguns tend to be tools to control vermin, protect yourself from animal predators, and hunting for food or profit.
Handguns to me really have only one function, to kill humans. So they are owned for either offence against other humans, or defence against such other humans.
We have quite adequate police services because we do pay taxes, and because the prevention of armed crime is such a small part of their workload.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by HB of CJ   » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:33 am

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The provided article regarding the failed tax levy presumed to save us from ourselves is a piece work. Not complete. Not accurate. Also as stated 4 years old. It only told about 30% of the whole crazy long story.

I should know. Was here when it happened. I voted a firm NO to the tax levy. It would take 6 pages and one hour to explain it all. If one wants to pull it down for themselves go to Oregon and California logging railroads.

That will get you started. This goes back many years. Again, no time for me right now. It involves broken legal contracts with the Federal government. Bad local politics. Logging. Badly used federal laws, etc..

I will try to get back in a timely basic and finish this. Right now unless you were here all you are going to get is the top 10% of it and not the remaining truth to the other 90%. Like an iceberg. Most unseen.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Donnachaidh   » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:15 pm

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The article specifically notes the loss of the federal timber sales money and spends 3 paragraphs discussing it.

No matter what the cause of the loss of timber funds was, the people of Josephine County chose not to take the actions that would mitigate the situation. I'm not saying they weren't screwed over by the Federal government or by the situation. I am saying that they chose not to deal with reality and mitigate the loss of the Federal money.

HB of CJ wrote:The provided article regarding the failed tax levy presumed to save us from ourselves is a piece work. Not complete. Not accurate. Also as stated 4 years old. It only told about 30% of the whole crazy long story.

I should know. Was here when it happened. I voted a firm NO to the tax levy. It would take 6 pages and one hour to explain it all. If one wants to pull it down for themselves go to Oregon and California logging railroads.

That will get you started. This goes back many years. Again, no time for me right now. It involves broken legal contracts with the Federal government. Bad local politics. Logging. Badly used federal laws, etc..

I will try to get back in a timely basic and finish this. Right now unless you were here all you are going to get is the top 10% of it and not the remaining truth to the other 90%. Like an iceberg. Most unseen.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:23 pm

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Not saying we are perfect in any way but in Australia we don't have the varied policing arrangement you seem to have.

Leaving out spy agencies and Federal police who almost never interact with regular citizens we have the State Police. These are separate to each state but use such similar uniforms and methods they may as well be one force.

No local sheriffs or county police, so very uniform administration of the law country wide. Works.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Donnachaidh   » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:57 pm

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Law enforcement is a bit more complex in the US. Aside from various the various Federal agencies (FBI, ATF, etc...) there are the State Police (different names depending on the state, i.e. California Highway Patrol, Oregon State Police, Texas Rangers, Texas Highway Patrol), county sheriffs, and municipal police. This isn't including things like campus police, which some larger universities have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States has what looks like a pretty through list.

Daryl wrote:Not saying we are perfect in any way but in Australia we don't have the varied policing arrangement you seem to have.

Leaving out spy agencies and Federal police who almost never interact with regular citizens we have the State Police. These are separate to each state but use such similar uniforms and methods they may as well be one force.

No local sheriffs or county police, so very uniform administration of the law country wide. Works.
_____________________________________________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by HB of CJ   » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:34 pm

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Time for a little bit more. Also it is apparent that most folks do not understand that our situation here in SW OR USA in Josephine County is the result of totally illegal activity by our own Federal Government.

Most of us who vote here are very conservative. We do not like being illegally treated by any government. The Feds have run over us with a logging truck. We had a LEGAL agreement with the Feds. THEY BROKE IT!

Some would feel OK with this. Most of us down here do not. We voted against the Country tax levy, (including sheriff) because frankly rolling over and KOW TOWING to broken contracts rubbed us the wrong way.

Can I say this? We got screwed by many. Now we wanted to say getting screwed was OK? Hardly. We voted NO. Then the County Commissioners, (the three elected folks) did their best to punish us for our audacity.

Again, long story. Local politics. So now we have no law enforcement. So what? We are capable of protecting ourselves. The Sheriff would never admit this. So most of us carry firearms on our person.

What does this mean? Practically speaking, hardly anything. Everything has continued as before. Some problems just seem to get taken care of? Strange how that may happen. Most of us feel OK with this.

Now you know a little bit more. We enjoy little government. We enjoy low taxes even more. Remember, law enforcement has no legal duty to protect YOU. Only the public. Something to remember. Thus the use of guns.
Last edited by HB of CJ on Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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