Honorverse ramblings and musings

Hutch wrote:I suspect the Yildun System will be visited early on in the next book by a certain cigar-smoking admiral who has made a bit of a name for himself dismantling enemy facilities behind the lines...

Interesting. Why? Because that will probably be the largest single battle to come, won't it? The Battle of Yildun?

Because Technodyne probably has something new in the pipe. And if we as readers can see the strategic value of hitting Yildun, then certainly so too can the League. Can we expect Yildun to be heavily fortified with mines and some sort of response by way of pod warfare?

Will someone, Tourville, die in the Battle of Yildun?

What is the status of Technodyne? The wiki says it collapsed because of all of the indictments.

Monica Incident Edit

In the Battle of Monica, the Royal Manticoran Navy destroyed or captured a total of fourteen Indefatigable-class battlecruisers which turned out to be part of a deal between TIY, the Jessyk Combine, and the Republic of Monica.

After this deal was uncovered, Technodyne Industries took a serious blow. In the face of all the evidence found at Eroica Station, not even the Solarian League's bureaucrats could protect the company: it soon collapsed, the value of its stock plummeting, a third of its board of directors getting indicted, and half of those not indicted turning further evidence over to the state in an effort to save their own freedom and reputation. (SI1)

I didn't know it had collapsed. I thought it was alive and well.

I've always thought that the Verge was coined the Verge because of its geography. Because it was on the verge of Solarian space. Am I correct there? Anyways, I'm just getting around to beginning Torch of Freedom, and its name seems just as much political as geographical.


At any rate, its citizens really hate the League - part and parcel of why the Harrington plan is a shoe-in.

Okay, I vaguely remember some data gleaned from captured SLN computers that detailed their dirty tricks to browbeat polities. Was that ever released to the League citizens?

cthia wrote:I've always thought that the Verge was coined the Verge because of its geography. Because it was on the verge of Solarian space. Am I correct there? Anyways, I'm just getting around to beginning Torch of Freedom, and its name seems just as much political as geographical.


At any rate, its citizens really hate the League - part and parcel of why the Harrington plan is a shoe-in.

Okay, I vaguely remember some data gleaned from captured SLN computers that detailed their dirty tricks to browbeat polities. Was that ever released to the League citizens?

It's a Solarian-centric label that's applied to non-Solarian territory, sort of like how we used 'Third World' in the 20th century to refer to regions on multiple continents.

As for the data captured from the SLN ships - no, I don't think they have been released by Manticore yet, although they have told the Mandarins they have it. I remember mention of the Alignment planning to release this data to undermine negotiations between the GA and SL.

munroburton wrote:

cthia wrote:I've always thought that the Verge was coined the Verge because of its geography. Because it was on the verge of Solarian space. Am I correct there? Anyways, I'm just getting around to beginning Torch of Freedom, and its name seems just as much political as geographical.


At any rate, its citizens really hate the League - part and parcel of why the Harrington plan is a shoe-in.

Okay, I vaguely remember some data gleaned from captured SLN computers that detailed their dirty tricks to browbeat polities. Was that ever released to the League citizens?

It's a Solarian-centric label that's applied to non-Solarian territory, sort of like how we used 'Third World' in the 20th century to refer to regions on multiple continents.

As for the data captured from the SLN ships - no, I don't think they have been released by Manticore yet, although they have told the Mandarins they have it. I remember mention of the Alignment planning to release this data to undermine negotiations between the GA and SL.

Interesting, as I was considering that perhaps the GA should release the data to give the Harrington plan its initial impetus.

cthia wrote:I've always thought that the Verge was coined the Verge because of its geography. Because it was on the verge of Solarian space. Am I correct there? Anyways, I'm just getting around to beginning Torch of Freedom, and its name seems just as much political as geographical.


At any rate, its citizens really hate the League - part and parcel of why the Harrington plan is a shoe-in.

Okay, I vaguely remember some data gleaned from captured SLN computers that detailed their dirty tricks to browbeat polities. Was that ever released to the League citizens?

You are correct--it is the Verge because it is on the verge of Solarian space. I believe Munrobarton is incorrect--it does not refer to all of space outside of the Solarian League. It is only the next few hundred light-years radius, approximately, beyond the Protectorates. Munrobarton is correct, though, that it is a Solarian-centric term.

Manticore, by the way, is in the Verge; I believe there is even textev which associates Manticore with the Verge. Haven is not, yet.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:I've always thought that the Verge was coined the Verge because of its geography. Because it was on the verge of Solarian space. Am I correct there? Anyways, I'm just getting around to beginning Torch of Freedom, and its name seems just as much political as geographical.


At any rate, its citizens really hate the League - part and parcel of why the Harrington plan is a shoe-in.

Okay, I vaguely remember some data gleaned from captured SLN computers that detailed their dirty tricks to browbeat polities. Was that ever released to the League citizens?

You are correct--it is the Verge because it is on the verge of Solarian space. I believe Munrobarton is incorrect--it does not refer to all of space outside of the Solarian League. It is only the next few hundred light-years radius, approximately, beyond the Protectorates. Munrobarton is correct, though, that it is a Solarian-centric term.

Manticore, by the way, is in the Verge; I believe there is even textev which associates Manticore with the Verge. Haven is not, yet.

Manticore is in the Verge??? But Haven is not? I thought Manticore was part of the Haven sector. Wait! Huh?!

Talk about little known Honorverse facts! Thanks for the advanced geography lesson.

cthia wrote:Manticore is in the Verge??? But Haven is not? I thought Manticore was part of the Haven sector. Wait! Huh?!

Talk about little known Honorverse facts! Thanks for the advanced geography lesson.

Haven Sector - That area over there with Haven in the center of it ... -ish.

The Verge, Talbot Cluster, Havenite Sector, these are all very nebulous terms to deal with a large, but ill-defined sections of space. You point that way and add an -ish at the end and you've defined most of these references.

Silensia and the Andermani are in the Haven sector - supposedly. Ever look at the map and think that? I don't. Even Manticore is a stretch.

All the references are a vague volume either over there (ish) or some(ish) light years from earth. They may technically overlap, they may not make sense (like why are Monica, Cinnamon and Frobee not part of the Talbot Cluster? - and why are stars not clustered together a cluster anyway?) But there you go.

cthia wrote:Manticore is in the Verge??? But Haven is not? I thought Manticore was part of the Haven sector. Wait! Huh?!

Talk about little known Honorverse facts! Thanks for the advanced geography lesson.

As Theemile pointed out, the Verge is only vaguely defined. There are no definite borders, and it overlaps with innumerable other named regions with definite or indefinite borders. There is no reason why one named region cannot partially overlap some other named region. For example, the Rust Belt is a vaguely defined region which partially overlaps the regions called the Midwest, the Northeast, and the Great Lakes Region.

Manticore is 530 light-years from the Solarian League, and the Protectorates extend some 300 to 400 light-years from Sol. Haven is 300 light-years from Manticore and 667 light-years from Sol. Haven is considerably farther from the edge of the Solarian League than Manticore. It appears to me that Manticore is near the outer edge of the vaguely defined region known as the Verge, while Haven is outside it. But since it is only vaguely defined, there are probably conflicting definitions of which systems are in the Verge. It's like defining the border between urban, suburban, and rural, at the neighborhood level.

[edit]Another point--Manticore is part of the Haven Quadrant, which appears to be a much larger volume than a Sector (compare to Maya Sector). The Haven Quadrant appears to include the entire Republic of Haven, all of the Manticoran Alliance, possibly Silesia, and possibly Erewhon. It is not clear from the text whether Sector or Quadrant have formal definitions and formal borders.

Based on the root definition of quadrant, it is possible that the Haven Quadrant is literally 1/4 of explored space, the entire region northeast of Sol, with borders along galactic north and east from Sol.[/edit]

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:Manticore is in the Verge??? But Haven is not? I thought Manticore was part of the Haven sector. Wait! Huh?!

Talk about little known Honorverse facts! Thanks for the advanced geography lesson.

As Theemile pointed out, the Verge is only vaguely defined. There are no definite borders, and it overlaps with innumerable other named regions with definite or indefinite borders. There is no reason why one named region cannot partially overlap some other named region. For example, the Rust Belt is a vaguely defined region which partially overlaps the regions called the Midwest, the Northeast, and the Great Lakes Region.

Manticore is 530 light-years from the Solarian League, and the Protectorates extend some 300 to 400 light-years from Sol. Haven is 300 light-years from Manticore and 667 light-years from Sol. Haven is considerably farther from the edge of the Solarian League than Manticore. It appears to me that Manticore is near the outer edge of the vaguely defined region known as the Verge, while Haven is outside it. But since it is only vaguely defined, there are probably conflicting definitions of which systems are in the Verge. It's like defining the border between urban, suburban, and rural, at the neighborhood level.

[edit]Another point--Manticore is part of the Haven Quadrant, which appears to be a much larger volume than a Sector (compare to Maya Sector). The Haven Quadrant appears to include the entire Republic of Haven, all of the Manticoran Alliance, possibly Silesia, and possibly Erewhon. It is not clear from the text whether Sector or Quadrant have formal definitions and formal borders.

Based on the root definition of quadrant, it is possible that the Haven Quadrant is literally 1/4 of explored space, the entire region northeast of Sol, with borders along galactic north and east from Sol.[/edit]

Thanks SWM, Theemile. I was lost and the maps are even more confusing. Like when Theemile said "why are clusters of stars not actually clusters?!!"

I know, right! That was one of my first questions.

Shadow of Freedom

She considered that last point for a moment, then grimaced as she thought about the rank insignia sitting in the upper drawer of the desk behind her. The ones she would be allowed to officially pin onto her uniform collar in two days. -Henke

This makes me think about what Honor endured at the hands of Rear Admiral Styles in hell, err on Hades.

Suppose Honor didn't have her Grayson rank to fall back on and somehow her promotion to Admiral in the RMN was set to be official in a week or so more.

Would she have had to wait that week out, a week she did not have; or what, exactly?