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RTH Official Snippet #3

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by SCC   » Fri May 22, 2015 12:38 am

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You know, this kerosene has to have been made SOMEWHERE and given that there's been no mention of it before I suspect that it might be local
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Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri May 22, 2015 1:28 pm

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brnicholas wrote:One thing that jumped out at me as I reflected on this snippet is the claim that once the construction crews get in place they can build 25 miles of double tracked rail line and 25 miles of pipeline a day!

Assuming this is true that forces me to revise my estimates of Sharonan industry and population in Traisum and Kelsyr way way way up. Given what is being said about how the military movements are tying up transport the rails and pipe for this almost have to be local production. That means there is a city somewhere nearby (in Traisum at around the same place as Pittsburgh seems most likely as a source for coal, iron and oil) with enough industry to supply that building project.

I don't know what the minimum size is to do that but that civilian population is significant.

Nicholas



TTE made an ENORMOUS investment in infrastructure while simultaneously supporting the Traisum Cut and the railroad building on the other side of the Vandor Ocean. This includes a really, really big stockpile of rails and other RR-building equipment, and (if you will recall) they got additional engineering equipment and rails off to increase the rail line even before the Arcanan invasion kicked off and (for that matter) before the Conclave was called back home in Sharona. This is also something TTE has done before over quite a few universes, so they knew exactly what to send without any consultation with military engineers. The troop movements actually started only after virtually all of the engineering supplies were already en route (using rolling stock [and industry] down-chain from Sharona), whereas the troops had to come from Sharona itself. Trust me, there was time for the TTE logistics buildup to be almost completely in place before troop movements began straining movement resources closer to Fort Salby. There is a larger civilian presence in Traisum than I suspect you were allowing for, but not enough to actually produce the bulk of the needed material being shipped in. On the other hand, the TTE has been ferrying rolling stock and locomotives to the Traisum side of the various water gaps from the beginning, and chan Geraith can count on a massively increased transport capability within the next month or so. The bottleneck is going to be shipping on the water gaps in question, actually, and TTE (a) had already built up heavily in that regard because of the pre-war construction requirements in Traisum and (b) uses prefabbed ships whose components are rail transportable and which are assembled in local shipyards, and everything they had in the ship construction stockpiles has been sent scurrying off to reinforce the transport capabilities down this chain.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by Joat42   » Fri May 22, 2015 3:37 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:
brnicholas wrote:One thing that jumped out at me as I reflected on this snippet is the claim that once the construction crews get in place they can build 25 miles of double tracked rail line and 25 miles of pipeline a day!

Assuming this is true that forces me to revise my estimates of Sharonan industry and population in Traisum and Kelsyr way way way up. Given what is being said about how the military movements are tying up transport the rails and pipe for this almost have to be local production. That means there is a city somewhere nearby (in Traisum at around the same place as Pittsburgh seems most likely as a source for coal, iron and oil) with enough industry to supply that building project.

I don't know what the minimum size is to do that but that civilian population is significant.

Nicholas


TTE made an ENORMOUS investment in infrastructure while simultaneously supporting the Traisum Cut and the railroad building on the other side of the Vandor Ocean. This includes a really, really big stockpile of rails and other RR-building equipment, and (if you will recall) they got additional engineering equipment and rails off to increase the rail line even before the Arcanan invasion kicked off and (for that matter) before the Conclave was called back home in Sharona. This is also something TTE has done before over quite a few universes, so they knew exactly what to send without any consultation with military engineers. The troop movements actually started only after virtually all of the engineering supplies were already en route (using rolling stock [and industry] down-chain from Sharona), whereas the troops had to come from Sharona itself. Trust me, there was time for the TTE logistics buildup to be almost completely in place before troop movements began straining movement resources closer to Fort Salby. There is a larger civilian presence in Traisum than I suspect you were allowing for, but not enough to actually produce the bulk of the needed material being shipped in. On the other hand, the TTE has been ferrying rolling stock and locomotives to the Traisum side of the various water gaps from the beginning, and chan Geraith can count on a massively increased transport capability within the next month or so. The bottleneck is going to be shipping on the water gaps in question, actually, and TTE (a) had already built up heavily in that regard because of the pre-war construction requirements in Traisum and (b) uses prefabbed ships whose components are rail transportable and which are assembled in local shipyards, and everything they had in the ship construction stockpiles has been sent scurrying off to reinforce the transport capabilities down this chain.

It's a bit hard to grasp the logistics the TTE and the military has to deal with when compared to how it is in this age and day to build infrastructure and support large contingents of armed forces in really remote locations here on Earth which is only one planet.

It is kind of mind-boggling in scope so I can understand Nicholas disbelief.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by brnicholas   » Sat May 23, 2015 8:52 am

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runsforcelery wrote:
TTE made an ENORMOUS investment in infrastructure while simultaneously supporting the Traisum Cut and the railroad building on the other side of the Vandor Ocean. This includes a really, really big stockpile of rails and other RR-building equipment, and (if you will recall) they got additional engineering equipment and rails off to increase the rail line even before the Arcanan invasion kicked off and (for that matter) before the Conclave was called back home in Sharona. This is also something TTE has done before over quite a few universes, so they knew exactly what to send without any consultation with military engineers. The troop movements actually started only after virtually all of the engineering supplies were already en route (using rolling stock [and industry] down-chain from Sharona), whereas the troops had to come from Sharona itself. Trust me, there was time for the TTE logistics buildup to be almost completely in place before troop movements began straining movement resources closer to Fort Salby. There is a larger civilian presence in Traisum than I suspect you were allowing for, but not enough to actually produce the bulk of the needed material being shipped in. On the other hand, the TTE has been ferrying rolling stock and locomotives to the Traisum side of the various water gaps from the beginning, and chan Geraith can count on a massively increased transport capability within the next month or so. The bottleneck is going to be shipping on the water gaps in question, actually, and TTE (a) had already built up heavily in that regard because of the pre-war construction requirements in Traisum and (b) uses prefabbed ships whose components are rail transportable and which are assembled in local shipyards, and everything they had in the ship construction stockpiles has been sent scurrying off to reinforce the transport capabilities down this chain.


Thank you!

I had focused on the complaint that those extra cars were going out mostly empty and not realized how much they had carried and how much of an exaggeration that statement was.

I was looking a bit online to try and figure out their needs and seeing found that 125 tons of steel per mile just for the track of a single track line was a low number. Picturing the industry in Traisum that could produce 7000-14000 (depending on track weight) tons of steel a day was startling me.

Nicholas
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Re: water gaps re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Sat May 23, 2015 9:58 am

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"Shorter?" Don't you mean "longer?"

The Arc-segment around the North Atlantic will be
longer than any straight sail across it, but not much.

My point is: it is not too long for Voice Relays.

HTM

brnicholas wrote:Is the loop around the north of the Atlantic really all that much **shorter** relative to the straight sail compared to the loop around the north of the Pacific? Iceland after all is not near a straight run from Gibraltar to Florida. And the Pacific loop is on the first world out from Sharona, if they are going to voice chain around any water gap that would be it and we heard so much in HG and HHNF about the shortage of PA voices.

Still, yes it is possible, pending more information all I can really say is "I don't know."

Nicholas

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:In the book HG, the week's delay was for all water gaps,
three of them. The Pacific Gap of 6000 miles did
account for most of it.

The Pacific Ocean is Wide, whichever way you cross it.
There are insufficient places for Voice Relay Points.

The Traisum Gap is the length of the Mbisi + the width
of the North Atlantic. Parallel land routes are nearby,
and were given this week by several of us:
Quebec, Labrador, Greenland, Iceland, Scotland, Devon,
Brest, Bordeaux, Bilbao, Malaga, and then either side
of the Mbisi,
can each be a Voice Relay Point, even for less-strong
Voices. With stronger Voices, fewer Relays needed.

HTM

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Re: water gaps re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by brnicholas   » Sun May 24, 2015 11:02 am

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The question was a relative one and is not important. The important question is would the Sharonans have found it worthwhile to get 10-12 high powered voices out there (my estimate for the number required to cover a 7000 mile loop) and support them rather then accepting the delay of sending the messages by ship. I am inclined to think the voices would have been too expensive since it wasn't worthwhile to loop voices around China, Siberia, Alaska and down to eliminate a weeks message delay on every message sent to their colonies when the loop would be on their most heavily settled world (after Sharona itself).

However, as RFC's recent post reminded me in a different context, things changed dramatically when Sharona met the Arcanans. Getting the Traisum loop in place doubtless became worthwhile as soon as they realized Kelsayr connected to Hell's Gate. I guess I will assume they had long enough to get it in place before the beginning of RTH.

Nicholas

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:"Shorter?" Don't you mean "longer?"

The Arc-segment around the North Atlantic will be
longer than any straight sail across it, but not much.

My point is: it is not too long for Voice Relays.

HTM

brnicholas wrote:Is the loop around the north of the Atlantic really all that much **shorter** relative to the straight sail compared to the loop around the north of the Pacific? Iceland after all is not near a straight run from Gibraltar to Florida. And the Pacific loop is on the first world out from Sharona, if they are going to voice chain around any water gap that would be it and we heard so much in HG and HHNF about the shortage of PA voices.

Still, yes it is possible, pending more information all I can really say is "I don't know."

Nicholas

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Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by Mil-tech bard   » Mon May 25, 2015 11:53 am

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Time to drop some transportation & productivity "frame of reference data" here.

The American Civil War Union Army railroad construction force consisted of roughly 10,000, usually railway engineers plus whatever troops were on hand at the moment not needed for combat and garrison duty, and as many of the local able-bodied black population who they paid or were willing to work for food. The skill set of any given Union volunteer regiment was astonishing.

They could repair or rebuild railways and bridges very quickly, with

1) A railway rebuild rate of around 7-10km a day,

2) A railway repair rate of 25km a day and,

3) A gauge change rate of 30km a day.

By way of comparison, the labor forces of the Union and Central Pacific's engaged in building the first trans-continental railroad, which were also about 10,000 men. It took a population of about 100,000 to support 10,000 men in such an effort.

The 1862-1865 Union Army was backed up by a civilian agricultural and industrial population of 22-25 million people.

An idea of what a partially mobilized circa 1900(+) technology Sharonan TTE/military-railway organization could do comes from the Armchair General web site below:


http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... p?t=133563

--
"A short description of Soviet logistical methods is that they depended entirely on railways for strategic movement up to the frontline. In order to achieve this the NKPS (Soviet State Railways) was fully integrated into the RKKA Rear Services Command and was under command of their VOSO Military Transport Directorate. The Railway Brigades were from 1943 under the NKPS to provide light engineering support while heavy engineering was provided by UVVR Groups of the GUVVR Directorate of the NKPS. Command ran through the military command structure while the civilian NKPS provided the railwaymen and materials. The RKKA Railway Brigades numbered around 30 and 250,000 men towards the end of the war and a similar number were in the Highway Construction Battalions.

To give you an idea of the size of this operation, the NKPS numbered around 2,500,000 men in peacetime and 4,000,000 during the war.

They achieved what the Union troops achieved during the American Civil War, that they could repair or rebuild railways and bridges at a fantastic rate (even when they had been mined to prevent their rebuilding) with a rebuilding rate of around 7-10km, repairs at 25km and gauge change of 30km a day. Given that Combined Arms armies advanced at an average rate of 25km per day, the railways were mostly not far behind them. Of course Tank Armies advanced at 70km per day and so far outstripped the railways but then came to a halt on their objective and waited for the main force to catch up. They matched the Union troops claim that "They can rebuild bridges faster than the Rebs can burn them down." so although the Germans destroyed often 100% of the railways, they were back up and running in a matter of weeks. There are lots of examples in the Armchair General thread which go into the details."

--


The Soviet Union's population was 196,716,000 in June 1941.

Sharona's population is 10 billion.

Per David Weber, the Sharonans will cover a 1,000km straight line rail distance in 25 days (25 miles/40 km a day) with a double track rail line plus pipeline. And this happens not per workforce of 10,000 workers, a'la the 1865 Union Army. This happens per Sharonan workforce of _2,000_ TTE workers.

A Sharonan railway workforce roughly 5 time the individual worker productivity of an American Civil War Era railway worker is about right for the difference between 1863 and 1900.

The slightly above doubling of productivity over that that number implies a lot of things regards steam engine powered transportation, something additional beyond the massive steam powered earth moving equipment shown in the published text.

The snippet's mention of decades of advanced steam development, making steam powered armored vehicles and trucks viable military tools, is the tell here. As is the PAAF getting these 2.5 inch (63mm) Yerthak pedestal gun (Gatling autocannon analog) when the Ternathian Navy upgraded its secondary battleship armament.

The transition to 3 inch (76mm) and larger secondary batteries on Dreadnoughts happened when torpedo boat destroyers got high pressure steam turbine propulsion, allowing bigger and faster ships to deliver much larger torpedo attacks.

The Trans-temporal railway's decades long push for bigger/better steam engines for work equipment in virgin universe railway development means that the steam engines of Sharona are far more developed -- AKA smaller & higher pressure -- than anything made on our time line.

There have to be a lot of TTE low ground pressure, high steam pressure traction Caterpillar track, and large inflatable rubber tire wheeled cross country, tractors or trucks in the railway building establishment. And they have to have something like a small, high pressure steam, turbine power plant.

So, Steam turbine tanks, anyone?
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Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by Mil-tech bard   » Mon May 25, 2015 12:08 pm

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Logistics frame of reference post #2 --

The key logistical issue with this planned Sharonan military campaign to Hells Gate is less the railways than the _Water Gaps_ -- both in terms of crossing them and communicating across them.

Again, from the same Armchair General thread:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... p?t=133563

...the nature of the Soviet Union's supply chain vs. the Allies'...

Loading and unloading ships was a major bottleneck for the allies. Much slower than loading/unloading trains

The UK had vast supply dumps that had been built up over a couple of years, but getting those supplies to France, never mind to the units, took more effort than in Russia despite a shorter distance.

- UK depot to UK port by train or truck. Even if the depot is in the port city, it isn't dockside.

- UK port to French port by ship. The distance is almost trivial, but loading and unloading takes time and functional port facilities. The Germans did a good job of destroying as much as they could in the French ports. Cherbourg surrendered on June 29, but was only at limited capacity by mid-August.

- French port to depot by truck. Get it off the ship and haul it over to a local depot to be sorted for immediate loading onto truck convoys or for storage until needed. You need to unload the ship as fast as possible to make room for the next one. You have to organize your supplies in the depot. For example, artillery and mortar ammo needs to be sorted by lot. You don't want to send a battery 50 rounds per gun spread out over 15 different manufacturing lots.

- Depot to units by truck. The last leg. This is the only point in the allied supply chain which matches the Russian one. This is where the better quality French road network would make a difference.

The Soviet Union was all rail except for the last leg to the units (excepting a few cases where river transport was part of the chain.) Trains are modular. You can load a 25 car train with one type of materiel at a large depot, break it up at an intermediate rail yard and allocate a few cars to each of several separate trains, and send them to different locations for transfer to trucks. More efficient than unloading and loading onto a different train.

Any train cargo that can be unloaded by hand can be unloaded at an ordinary siding. Given a few days and a local unskilled labor force, it's easy to build a log-wall-faced platform for unloading directly from train to truck, or for driving tanks directly off the rail cars. Much easier to improvise with rail transport.


The design of the Portal Authority modular freighters is by far the most important logistical issue.

If it something like a railway roll-on/roll-off vehicle transport, it means one thing.

If it is a break bulk freighter like a WW2 Liberty or Victory ship, it means something else, very bad, for the Sharonans.

This issue has not been addressed by the author in the snippets or hints yet.
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Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by Mil-tech bard   » Mon May 25, 2015 12:28 pm

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Sharonan logistical frame of reference post #3

Getting back to the idea that Sharonan logistics are going to have huge disadvantages compared to Arcanian airlift.

It ain't necessarily so.

I have traveled through the railway pass in New Mexico that the Traisum Cut is modeled on, and I have researched something called "Slack-line cableway excavators" which were available during it's construction.

"Slack-line cableway excavators" were used extensively by the US Army Corps of Engineers in the major water projects that tamed the Mississippi.

"Slack-line cableway excavators" are one of a family of older "low-tech" technologies called "Ropeways."

Ropeways were used a lot on the US West Coast in the 19th century to move timber and agricultural products from land to "dogleg" schooners before the advent of motor vehicles.

"Dogleg" schooners were a particularly small and handy small ship type which could navigate really narrow passages to get close inshore at most any cliff area or inlet.

A "dog's leg" is a nautical term for a particularly crooked, zig-zag, course with multiple tacks in a short distance.

Please see the following on Aerial ropeways and cableways, plus railroad worktrains that utilized ropeway/cableway technology.

1) Aerial ropeways: automatic cargo transport for a bargain

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/01/ ... sport.html


Transport infrastructure

Ropeway towers could be constructed from timber or iron and were generally between 100 and 300 feet (30 to 90 metres) apart, although much longer spans were possible if necessary. In bicable ropeways the tension in the track cables was produced by weights applied at one of the terminal stations. However, in longer lines it became necessary to apply additional tension at intermediate points.

For this purpose tension stations were built at distances of about 3000 to 6000 feet. The cars passed from one section of the cable to the next by means of intervening rails - so that no interruption occurred in the continuity of the track. This means that there are no limits to the length of a ropeway: each (longer) ropeway consisted of multiple sections that could be considered as separate ropeways.

The same technique was applied to "angle stations", which were used to make a curve in a ropeway (tension stations and angle stations could be combined - see the illustration above, right). The largest drawback of an aerial tramway, also relevant today, is that it can only be built in a straight line. Every angle in a ropeway requires the erection of an angle station, which raises capital costs. However, in general, few angle stations are needed because ropeways can be constructed above most obstacles.

Moreover, each tension and/or angle station can also double as a loading or unloading station. Goods could even be sent along different routes via a switch if more ropeways met at a single point. The picture above shows a ropeway switchyard of a German coal plant (described in a 1914 book) where three lines of carriers converge.

To guard against the risk of accident from the premature discharge of a bucket or other cause when crossing public highways or railroads, wire nets were usually suspended between supports on either side, or structures especially erected for the purpose. An arrangement of a shelter bridge as required by a county council to hide the cableway where it passed over a public road can be seen on the right.


and


The many advantages of ropeways

Why did aerial ropeways become so successful at the turn of the twentieth century? The main reason was that they were considerably cheaper than their alternatives, be it transport by horses and carts or transport by railroad. The ropeway was economical in operation and required only a minimal capital outlay.

The investment that would be entailed in a hilly country by the necessity of making tunnels, cuttings and embankments for a line or railway was avoided.

A cableway could be constructed and worked on hilly ground at a cost not greatly exceeding that which would be called for on a level country. Rivers and ravines could be crossed without the aid of bridges. Gradients quite impractical to ordinary railroads could be worked with ease.

One calculation showed that a ropeway only 1 mile (1,630 metres) long with a difference in altitude of 0.4 miles (645 meters), would require a railway of 15 miles (24 km) to reach the same point. Ropeways were also generally half as expensive to operate when compared to cartage by mules, horses, and oxen.

Furthermore, an aerial tramway could be up and running in no time. Some lines could be easily moved from one place to another with comparative ease. An installation of 1 mile length at a beetroot farm in Holland, with a daily capacity of 50 tons, could be taken down and put up again in a fresh place in one day, by the aid of 20 men, provided the distance to cart the component materials did not exceed 5 miles.

Ropeways continued to work during weather conditions that would bring surface hauling to a standstill (like floods or heavy snow, especially interesting in mountain areas) and they could be operated at night without hazards. Wear and tear were relatively low. Ropeways did not occupy any material quantity of ground, and the intervening land between posts could be left for cultivation or other use. Terminals could be arranged so that the material transported could be delivered at the exact spot where it was needed, saving all the expense of rehandling. One disadvantage thet ropeways had was that they were more vulnerable to high winds and electrical storms than other transportion options.


2) Aerial Ropeways in Nepal
http://www.notechmagazine.com/ropeways/

3) Ropeway conveyor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropeway_conveyor

A ropeway conveyor or material ropeway[1] is essentially a subtype of gondola lift, from which containers for goods rather than passenger cars are suspended.

Ropeway conveyors are typically found around large mining concerns, and can be of considerable length. The COMILOG Cableway, which ran from Moanda in Gabon to Mbinda in the Republic of the Congo, was over 75 km in length. The Norsjö aerial tramway in Sweden had a length of 96 kilometers.

The world's first cable car on multiple supports was built by Adam Wybe in Gdańsk, Poland in 1644.

In Ethiopia the Italians built the Asmara-Massawa Cableway in 1936, which was 75 km long.

Conveyors can be powered by a wide variety of forms of energy, electric, engines, or gravity (particularly in mountainous mining concerns, or where running water is available).[2]

4) History Friday: 81st ID’s Peleliu Lessons for MacArthur’s Invasion of Japan

http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/38212.html


There were some good reasons the 81st ID thought of the Aerial Tramway at Peleliu. The US Army Corps of Engineers had used cableways and tramways as labor saving devices to build bridges, damns and water projects through out the American West for decades before WW2. It was, in the 1940′s, just one of the every day tools US Army Engineers thought of in the same way that today’s smart phone users today view the Internet. After WW2, particularly after the Korean War, helicopters replaced most applications of cableway and tramway technology inside the US Army. This is so long ago for the current US Army that in places like Afghanistan, where that technology would have been highly useful to relieve helicopter resupply of positions on high mountains, it just isn’t remembered.

The effect of these aerial tramway delivered sandbags was several fold. First, it took away much of the effectiveness of Japanese snipers and mortars, particularly their 50mm grenade dischargers, in producing a lot of American casualties.

Second, they gave American infantry a protected position to fight from with crew served heavy weapons (machine guns, mortars, light artillery) and artillery forward observers for Japanese counter attacks and infiltrations.

Third, it left American infantry _covered_ positions *closer* to Japanese positions to launch their “Blowtorch and corkscrew” flame/explosive attacks from. The 81st ID — unlike the 6th Marine Division at Sugar Loaf on Okinawa — didn’t have to cross the same ground over and over to get close enough to inflict attrition losses on underground Japanese positions. This was a very important development. At Biak, Leyte, Luzon, Tarawa, Saipan, Guam, Iwo Jima and Okinawa, flame thrower operators were dead men walking. This resulted in the U.S. Army’s Chemical Warfare Service having to train up a new generation of flamethrower operators for the next operation. This didn’t happen for the US Army after Peleliu. The 81st Infantry Division’s portable flamethrower operators actually survived the campaign. That was unheard of in Pacific Theater combat!

Last, when sand bag positions were placed around engineer roads for tanks and trucks, the 81st ID’s covered positions gave infantry close support to both the engineers and vehicles. Preventing the mining of those roads at night and allowing movement during the day. Thus allowing the application of huge “super-flame throwers” cobbled together from flame thrower guns, fire hoses, pump units and gasoline fuel trucks to flood out the largest multi-story “Cave Warfare” positions with thousands of gallons of fuel. What the 81st ID took on Peleliu was taken ONCE…and it stayed taken. That was the heart of what I call “Sandbag Constrictor” tactics.

It was absolutely certain that the 81st ID’s tramway and the sandbag “constrictor” tactics would have been used on Kyushu.


5) All About Work Trains
http://www.railroad.net/articles/railfa ... orktrains/

An early Illinois Central ditcher, X8001, is posed with its operating crew about 1912, copied by C. W. Witbeck from an old photograph. The bucket is positioned and dragged by the wooden beams. The near one, with the "ship's wheel" capstan, adjusts the angle of attack of the bucket, and also empties it.

A Chesapeake & Ohio ditching train. From left to right: Locomotive 6095, dump car AD35, flat car X2080 with crane D33, dump car AD36, caboose 3519, and Jordan spreader BS3. This consist is typical of trains used for drainage ditch maintenance, and also for building embankments and fills. This scene is at Marion, Indiana, on August 25, 1970. Photo by L. L. Davis.

A close view of an American Steam Ditcher in virtually as-built, if slightly battered, condition. Gulf Mobile & Ohio 66376 was found in this state at Meridian, Mississippi, on February 21, 1965. Note that the shovel chassis is chained to the flat car to prevent it from shifting in transit. Such a machine could be used as a crane by removing the dipper arm, and in fact nearly all the last surviving ditchers were so operated. Photo by John C. La Rue, Jr..

A typical crawler crane on a flatcar, which replaced the old American Ditchers. Reading crane R830 rests on its carrier car, 96610, at the Lehigh Street yards in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on December 28, 1974. Photo by John C. La Rue, Jr.
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Re: RTH Official Snippet #3
Post by Mil-tech bard   » Mon May 25, 2015 12:42 pm

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Sharonan logistical frame of reference data post #4

Just because the Sharonan's can lay 25 miles/40km of level ground railway track a day does not mean it will be covering a straight line distance between portals of that distance a day.

This is a snippet from the previous post's data dump --

One calculation showed that a ropeway only 1 mile (1,630 metres) long with a difference in altitude of 0.4 miles (645 meters), would require a railway of 15 miles (24 km) to reach the same point. Ropeways were also generally half as expensive to operate when compared to cartage by mules, horses, and oxen.

Things like going through passes in mountain ranges are going to cause Sharonan rail lines to be much much longer than the straight line distance between portals.

Since the authors are not going to tell us anything but what is necessary for the story to maintain maximum flexibility in story telling, the above logistical frame of reference posts are simply guidelines of feasibility the story will be told between (or past).
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