Comedy/Tragedy of Errors: Stupidity in the Honorverse

Honors decision to use Alistair McKeons birthday as an excuse to be aboard the front scout cruiser on the most dangerous leg of her escort mission, when she ended up getting captured.

Flakey wrote:Honors decision to use Alistair McKeons birthday as an excuse to be aboard the front scout cruiser on the most dangerous leg of her escort mission, when she ended up getting captured.

That's with the advantage of hindsight. There was no positive reason to suspect Adler was a dangerous spot; the raid represented a more aggressive posture than the Peeps were suspected of being able to muster then. If Adler had a competent system commander, it would have either remained in Alliance hands or at least had a remnant in the outer system to warn the convoy off. Even if Adler were in enemy hands, the odds of them being able to intercept Prince Adrian were lousy. And on top of all of that, there's some good to be had out of the convoy commander being on point in that case, to make the call to back out on the basis of the best, earliest information.

She saved the convoy. Despite the fate of Prince Adrian and the personnel aboard it, it was a win for the Salamander overall.

JeffEngel wrote:

Flakey wrote:Honors decision to use Alistair McKeons birthday as an excuse to be aboard the front scout cruiser on the most dangerous leg of her escort mission, when she ended up getting captured.

That's with the advantage of hindsight. There was no positive reason to suspect Adler was a dangerous spot; the raid represented a more aggressive posture than the Peeps were suspected of being able to muster then. If Adler had a competent system commander, it would have either remained in Alliance hands or at least had a remnant in the outer system to warn the convoy off. Even if Adler were in enemy hands, the odds of them being able to intercept Prince Adrian were lousy. And on top of all of that, there's some good to be had out of the convoy commander being on point in that case, to make the call to back out on the basis of the best, earliest information.

She saved the convoy. Despite the fate of Prince Adrian and the personnel aboard it, it was a win for the Salamander overall.

If you want a RW example Google HMS Jervis Bay.

roseandheather wrote:Giancola. Of all the careless, cruel, thick-headed, cruel, selfish, cruel, thoughtless, selfish, cruel asshats in this 'verse, I hate Giancola the most.

I will never forgive him for what he did to my girl. Not if I live to see the death of the universe. I only wish he had died in a more painful, bloody, agonizing, prolonged fashion. Hung, drawn and quartered would be good. So would being torn apart by wild horses. Or flayed open and doused with saltwater.

My, my girl... you've just come up with a couple of things I've never thought of... particularly that last little bit... Maybe we could transport him somehow over to the Safehold universe and turn him over to Clyntahn for the punishment!

Don

Belial666 wrote:

Relax wrote:You are confusing war and peace. They are not even in the same neighborhood.

Just because a war starts, your percentage of idiots doesn't disappear. By definition, 50% of the population has below-average intelligence.

You are confusing average (sum total of intelligence scores of the population divided by the population) with the median, that is the number where 1/2 the population is above that number and 1/2 the population is below that number. Sometimes they are the same, usually they are not.
For example: Given a series of numbers: 1,2,3,5,7,9,12,44,77,100, the average or arithmetic mean is 26.1, (the numbers, divided by the count of numbers) but he median number, which is where 1/2 are above and 1/2 are below is 8, even though it isn't in the list.

Edited the 1st time to correct median, edited the 2nd time to add this note.

Keith_w wrote:

Belial666 wrote:Just because a war starts, your percentage of idiots doesn't disappear. By definition, 50% of the population has below-average intelligence.

You are confusing average (sum total of intelligence scores of the population divided by the population) with the median, that is the number where 1/2 the population is above that number and 1/2 the population is below that number. Sometimes they are the same, usually they are not.
For example: Given a series of numbers: 1,2,3,5,7,9,12,44,77,100, the average or arithmetic mean is 26.1, (the numbers, divided by the count of numbers) but he median number, which is where 1/2 are above and 1/2 are below is 8, even though it isn't in the list.

Edited the 1st time to correct median, edited the 2nd time to add this note.

An easier way to explain it: 99+% of the human race has an above average number of limbs.

crewdude48 wrote:

Keith_w wrote: quote="Belial666"
Just because a war starts, your percentage of idiots doesn't disappear. By definition, 50% of the population has below-average intelligence.
/quote

You are confusing average (sum total of intelligence scores of the population divided by the population) with the median, that is the number where 1/2 the population is above that number and 1/2 the population is below that number. Sometimes they are the same, usually they are not.
For example: Given a series of numbers: 1,2,3,5,7,9,12,44,77,100, the average or arithmetic mean is 26.1, (the numbers, divided by the count of numbers) but he median number, which is where 1/2 are above and 1/2 are below is 8, even though it isn't in the list.

Edited the 1st time to correct median, edited the 2nd time to add this note.

An easier way to explain it: 99+% of the human race has an above average number of limbs.

Dude, that is like, so true.

Suggested by my niece.

How did we miss, arguably the stupidest, most asinine, self-destructive (her words) things in the Honorverse...

Pierre and St. Just killing off their own, top-notch officers, during war time, and alienating the rest. St. Just and Pierre were acting as if they were under nanite compulsion. They were fighting the war for the Manties.

That's a stupid check drawn on a stupid bank, deposited in a stupid account!

(My niece, hilarious.)

cthia wrote:Suggested by my niece.

How did we miss, arguably the stupidest, most asinine, self-destructive (her words) things in the Honorverse...

Pierre and St. Just killing off their own, top-notch officers, during war time, and alienating the rest. St. Just and Pierre were acting as if they were under nanite compulsion. They were fighting the war for the Manties.

That's a stupid check drawn on a stupid bank, deposited in a stupid account!

(My niece, hilarious.)

It may have cost them in the short term, but in the mid term, they got McQueen, Theisman, Giscard and Tourville. As a Manty(Hamish?) quoted Napoleon, "there is a field marshal's baton in every knapsack" and doing away with the legislaturalist officers opened the field for everybody else.

The CPS' problem was, they kept killing those who failed(and in some cases, their families) after the Legislaturalist purge. They did discontinue that policy, but Saint-Just was obviously about to bring it back when Theisman shot him.

cthia wrote:Suggested by my niece.

How did we miss, arguably the stupidest, most asinine, self-destructive (her words) things in the Honorverse...

Pierre and St. Just killing off their own, top-notch officers, during war time, and alienating the rest. St. Just and Pierre were acting as if they were under nanite compulsion. They were fighting the war for the Manties.

That's a stupid check drawn on a stupid bank, deposited in a stupid account!

(My niece, hilarious.)

It's hard to get off a tiger once you're riding the thing.

The officer corps was a Legislaturalist institution: Legislaturalist in the persons of its senior officers, Legislaturalist in the assumptions, ambitions, and probably loyalties of its junior ones. So the Revolution demanded purges.

They didn't have a government with legitimacy to be a locus of loyalty for the survivors, so they could cross their fingers against coups, try to do it themselves ("Hey Kevin - can you run a fleet?"), or keep the new flag officers in line with fear. Fear demands remaining a credible threat, so threats are made good, and it gets ugly.

They were in a bad situation - their options were make it worse or make it much, much worse. So they made it worse. They were trying to get off the officer-shooting train but then there was that unfortunate... miscommunication between McQueen and St. Just and that effort was derailed.

Revolutions are hard. Kids, do not try this at home!