Honorverse ramblings and musings

SWM wrote:Manticore did have Mycroft-like platforms in the home system--they were called Forts. Now they are called Forts with Keyhole II.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:But the Forts aren't mobile. Isn't Mycroft?

Not really. Mycroft is basically Keyhole II with built-in power generators and some other self-sufficiency. They are just stationary Apollo missile control platforms, which is exactly what forts do with the vast shoals of missile pods they control. And the new forts are being built with Keyhole II, so the forts themselves can sit behind a wedge.

While not explicitly stated, its my assumption that the Mycroft nodes are (like Keyhole II) pure relays. There'd still be some master (manned) tactical center running the attack (usually in a fort - but it could probably be an Apollo capable ship or even an unprotected platform like the first Moriarty installation)

So Keyhole II equipped forts and Mycroft appear complimentary - the fort provides the tactical command and fire control, and on their own dominate anything within 3 lm or so. Then the predeployed Mycroft platforms let relay that info further, allowing them wield it maybe 10 or more times further than their un-amplified Apollo FTL-link range.


Though without Mycroft a fort in planetary orbit couldn't really engage until the enemy was close enough they might be tempted to risk inaccurate MDM return fire (to try to suppress the fort, or kill the pods). With Mycroft added you can engage at vastly further out; whether from onboard missile pods or controlling distant pre-deployed pod clusters. At those kind of ranges no commander would be tempted to return fire because they'd know the only thing they could even hope to hit would be the planet.

Hi Jonathan S,

Minor nit here: There is textev to suggest that those keyhole platforms would be heavily defended against attack to avoid being take out like Honor took out Moriarity's platforms at Lovat.

That being said, against an opponent like the League you could emplace them at Beowulf without the defenses in the interest of getting the job done quickly.

Don

n7axw wrote:Minor nit here: There is textev to suggest that those keyhole platforms would be heavily defended against attack to avoid being take out like Honor took out Moriarity's platforms at Lovat.

Since Mycroft platforms are described as being a Keyhole II with an added power supply and tactical computer support, it follows that any Mycroft Platform is well defended simply because a Keyhole II mounts PDLC clusters and CM control links. There's no indication that any of a Keyhole II's defenses are removed or degraded when converting one to a Mycroft platform.

IIRC, Moriarty was based on a battlecruiser hull (or battlecruiser sized hull, to be picky). It doesn't sound as if a Mycroft platform will be that big -- Maybe (pre-war) destroyer sized? maybe smaller?

Moriarty also apparently controlled an entire systems worth of defenses with two back-up platforms to rotate alert status and crew rest. Mycroft appears to be much more dispersed and redundant in addition to having FTL control links.

Mycroft seems like a much more flexible system, much like having the missile capabilities of a squadron, wing, task force, or fleet of SD(P)s without having the ships -- just their fire control links and computers and a pot-load of missile pods.

cthia wrote:But the Forts aren't mobile. Isn't Mycroft?

What makes you think Mycroft is mobile? Missile pods are notably not mobile.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:But the Forts aren't mobile. Isn't Mycroft?

What makes you think Mycroft is mobile? Missile pods are notably not mobile.

Because of textev, don't ask me to supply it, that states that they wouldn't be so easy to destroy. In other words, an ass(u)(me), told me. Or just, 'sigh' me.

I used it as an argument in another thread somewhere when someone mentioned that RFC frowns on the idea of unmanned ships. That ship has already sailed, I argued, with Mycroft and whatever the hell that was that sought out and destroyed Moriarty platforms. Guess I was wrong on one front.

Oops.

Can Mycroft at least be outfitted with reaction thrusters, to make them more tactically pleasant if need be?

Does it have a stealth quotient?

cthia wrote:

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:How, when you write about Soap Operas in Space,
can you possibly omit "Another World?"

Besides the very name:

Don't you know that two or three actors trained by AW,
moved on to Star Trek: The Next Generation??

As for Awareness of other cultures,
AW was the Soap that sent a couple to Italy for their
wedding ... and conducted the service in Italian!

AW tested a teenager's claim to have spent years in
France, by having another teen question her in French!!
(Real French; I was so proud that I understood it.)

H. True Map-addict

Love this post Howard. But I just have to ask. How did the teenager fare during that "French inquisition?"

cthia wrote:Later conversation.

"Give it to Katyanna. She loves soap operas."

"You can't compare the Honorverse to soaps sis!"

"Sure I can. Manticore is "As The World Turns." Grayson is "The Guiding Light." Masada is "All My Children." The SLN are "General Hospital." The genetically engineered slaves are "The Bold and the Beautiful."

"You forgot the RHN."

"Ryan's Hope."

"Beowulf?"

"90210 and Peyton Place."

My sister. If it isn't John le Carre, Stephen Coonts, Michael Deaver, etc. Forget it. Sci-Fi isn't her cup of tea, or coffee.

Though I must admit. The soap comparisons are rather funny.

dreamrider wrote:
That would make the MAlign "Dark Shadows"??

dreamrider

My niece thinks this is hilarious dreamrider. I think it's pretty funny too. I'll pass it along to sis.

cthia wrote:Can Mycroft at least be outfitted with reaction thrusters, to make them more tactically pleasant if need be?

Does it have a stealth quotient?

As far as we know, it does not have a stealth component.

Keyhole II supposedly had some limited maneuverability of its own. However, I don't think you can say that Mycroft is more mobile than forts are (which also have some limited maneuverability). Both forts and Mycroft are intended to be parked in place most of the time.

n7axw wrote:Hi Jonathan S,

Minor nit here: There is textev to suggest that those keyhole platforms would be heavily defended against attack to avoid being take out like Honor took out Moriarity's platforms at Lovat.

That being said, against an opponent like the League you could emplace them at Beowulf without the defenses in the interest of getting the job done quickly.

Don

Sure they should, which is why the tactical section talking to the Mycroft nodes would normally be in a fort. And I completely agree it would be pretty stupid to put them anywhere undefended. But from a technical point of view you could; even though you shouldn't. (Because they have the example of the vulnerability of Moriarity's original stealthed but undefended central node; kill that and all the relays in the system are useless)

And then as Weird Harold said, we'd expect the Mycroft nodes themselves to retain at least the Keyhole II defenses (ECM, PDLCs, wedges, side and/or buckler walls)

(But I probably shouldn't have wandered off on that side tangent in the middle of my post; especially since I didn't fully explore it )

Erewhon

Perhaps the answer to most of these questions are in one or more of the novels I'm yet to read. From the Wiki itself, Wages of Sin sounds promising. Just how much detail, I don't know. An apology for those unread novels, as my leisure time is highly spoken for. I'm just far too busy, with what little leisure time I have. Wait. What leisure time? Even when I'm posting, I'm working! I'm a fairly new Weber fan, not predating my joining the forum by much. So, if these questions are in my yet unconquered Mad Wizard Weber territory, feel free to disregard if you prefer, or respond with your thoughts, as I prefer, because in my backlogged life, I'll be happy just to squirrel away enough free time in-time to read the next Honor novel.

But first, a word from our sponsors "Fun E. Bone" brought to you by MWW himself...

I was vacationing in the wiki and read this...

Erewhon was originally settled by a group of successful interstellar criminals. Initially, the planet and its enterprises were used as a front for organized crime.

After being interuppted countless times during a hectic life in a busy home I continued to read further along in the wiki...

At the time, a successful criminal was an honorable criminal, leading to the development of an honor code that existed into the modern era. Coupled with the growth of the planetary population, support industries, and increased legitimate commerce, the government evolved into a legitimate body. (CS1)

That sounds like much of the North during gangster era America. Especially Chicago and its crime world and crime lord history, replete with 'bought and paid for' police and government officials and the underground cavern of caves in which to move about the city unseen and undetected, I thought to myself.

After more interruptions (a phone conversation with a particularly emotionally exhausted sister delivering another breeched foal in three days) I continue reading...

Notable tourist attractions on Erewhon were the city of Maytag itself, the Suds Emporium (a privately owned structure which housed many government offices and was regarded as the actual seat of government on Erewhon), and the space station known as The Wages of Sin. (CS1)

"Hahaha!" I laugh. You call yourself the "Suds Emporium" because of a need to clean the loot!" You crooks!

More interruptions then further reading...

The Republic's capital was the city of Maytag. Erewhonese place names tended to reference ancient Earth laundry products (Maytag, Sears, Suds Emporium, etc.) and were reflective of the intent of the planet's founding families (which were criminal organizations) to use it as a money laundering enterprise. (CS1)

My face is just one big

I laugh so hard. MWW is indeed Mad. This should be in the Humor thread!

OKay, enough from our sponsor Fun E. Bone.

Erewhon was particularly known for its complex honor code. At its heart was the inviolability of one's word. As a result, Erewhon had one of the lowest percentages of lawyers in the industrialized galaxy.
Erewhon traders and businesses were especially known for being shrewd negotiators.
Erewhon had a reputation of being a seedy and dangerous place to be, with an especially active criminal underworld. However, the Erewhonese were honorable people, operating on a developed version of the thieves' code of honor. (CS1)

Didn't we just argue Erewhon in this capacity? Why they "turned their backs on Manticore," and whether their actions were warranted? I remember opining that with Erewhon it became a matter of principle. Hey, I was right. They lived by an honor code. They would give you the boot polished by that same honor code. See?

Leading into the source of my main puzzlement...

The Republic of Erewhon was a single-system star nation with the planet Erewhon as its capital. It was allied with the Solarian League and, like Manticore, in possession of a wormhole junction, the Erewhon Wormhole Junction. Its terminus in the Terra Haute System was 25 light-years away from the Hennesy Terminus of the Manticore Wormhole Junction.

I had no idea Erewhon was originally allied with the League. Immediately, cogs begin overheating in my brain. Usually, if Manticore allies with someone who has a terminus, they seal the right to the terminus in case of war? I find it difficult to form my question because one leads to another. If the League was originally allied with Erewhon, why on Earth, or who on Earth, would allow such a strategic alliance to fail? Did Haven gain control, use, of the terminus when High Ridge sent Erewhon into their waiting arms? Does the terminus offer any strategic advantage against Manticore from the League, or from Haven?

The Republic of Erewhon was once mentioned to be a member of the Solarian League. (HH1) This was later corrected, as Erewhon just had a military treaty with the League.[1]

The Solarian League had long courted Erewhon in an attempt to bring it (and its Junction) into the League.

A military treaty? I'm going to assume that they had access to the terminus sewn. Until they pooped whatever frequent League excrement to smell the deal. Evenso, I'd think the League would still feel it their right to the Erewhon terminus. Or at least a moral obligation to League members.

Though Erewhon was capable of producing small warships (such as destroyers), its Navy wasn't large enough to support the capacity for larger warships. Instead, it relied largely on Solarian League corporations such as Technodyne Industries of Yildun. While it was a member of the Manticoran Alliance, Erewhon relied upon other members for technology and refits, as well as the Royal Manitcoran Navy for general defense.

Its interests in becoming independent of such sources led to an arrangement with the Maya Sector to build larger ships, which justified developing its own capacity for building larger warships.

Well what was the initial appeal of Erewhon, beyond the junction? Were they actually building smaller ships for Manticore? I was under the impression that certain Manticoran technology had its roots on Erewhon.

Confused and bemused. As are the traits of a Johnny come lately.

Whatever you may like to add to my confusion will be fine and appreciated.

http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_of_Erewhon