Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:This concern has been meandering in my mind, seeking the entropic path of least resistance.

When Pavel Young was sentenced, Dimitri had a heart attack. I am not certain why Dimitri had a heart attack, since Pavel was convicted on charges that did not carry the death penalty. OK, so he was dishonorably discharged, but why was that a reason to have a heart attack? It seems relief that Pavel wouldn't get the guillotine was a better reaction.

Another concern was why Dmitri supported Pavel's wish to join the navy in the first place, if he was so concerned about his well being. He had to know the level of incompetence in his son. And that that level of incompetence could, would, did get him killed!

And why on Earth, er Manticore, would Young want to join the navy?

The heart attack was probably caused by stress. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not just bad news that can cause heart attacks. Dmitri was probably poised on the edge of a heart attack through the entire trial--his body was barely being held together with his medical devices. During the verdict, Dmitri was put through a roller-coaster. First it looked like Pavel was getting off scott-free. Then they announced the verdict on the final count. Sure, his son isn't getting a death sentence, but he is being dishonorably discharged. It is a great stain on the family reputation. And anyone who understands how the court works will recognize that the only reason Pavel did not get the death sentence is politics. It is an embaressment. So Dmitri had cause to be both joyful and publicly embarrassed. But even more, it was yet another stress on the heart, a roller-coaster ride of anxiety.

On Dmitri's decrepit heart, it was one stress too many.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:This concern has been meandering in my mind, seeking the entropic path of least resistance.

When Pavel Young was sentenced, Dimitri had a heart attack. I am not certain why Dimitri had a heart attack, since Pavel was convicted on charges that did not carry the death penalty. OK, so he was dishonorably discharged, but why was that a reason to have a heart attack? It seems relief that Pavel wouldn't get the guillotine was a better reaction.

Another concern was why Dmitri supported Pavel's wish to join the navy in the first place, if he was so concerned about his well being. He had to know the level of incompetence in his son. And that that level of incompetence could, would, did get him killed!

And why on Earth, er Manticore, would Young want to join the navy?

The heart attack was probably caused by stress. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not just bad news that can cause heart attacks. Dmitri was probably poised on the edge of a heart attack through the entire trial--his body was barely being held together with his medical devices. During the verdict, Dmitri was put through a roller-coaster. First it looked like Pavel was getting off scott-free. Then they announced the verdict on the final count. Sure, his son isn't getting a death sentence, but he is being dishonorably discharged. It is a great stain on the family reputation. And anyone who understands how the court works will recognize that the only reason Pavel did not get the death sentence is politics. It is an embaressment. So Dmitri had cause to be both joyful and publicly embarrassed. But even more, it was yet another stress on the heart, a roller-coaster ride of anxiety.

On Dmitri's decrepit heart, it was one stress too many.

Agree that it was the roller coaster stress that caused Dimitri's heart attack. It was not incompetence that caused Pavel's death - it was his vindictiveness. If he had been willing to forgo his revenge on Honor until he was well established in the political establishment, and not gone after her lover, he would not have ended up on the dueling grounds against a natural born killer.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:This concern has been meandering in my mind, seeking the entropic path of least resistance.

When Pavel Young was sentenced, Dimitri had a heart attack. I am not certain why Dimitri had a heart attack, since Pavel was convicted on charges that did not carry the death penalty. OK, so he was dishonorably discharged, but why was that a reason to have a heart attack? It seems relief that Pavel wouldn't get the guillotine was a better reaction.

Another concern was why Dmitri supported Pavel's wish to join the navy in the first place, if he was so concerned about his well being. He had to know the level of incompetence in his son. And that that level of incompetence could, would, did get him killed!

And why on Earth, er Manticore, would Young want to join the navy?

The heart attack was probably caused by stress. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not just bad news that can cause heart attacks. Dmitri was probably poised on the edge of a heart attack through the entire trial--his body was barely being held together with his medical devices. During the verdict, Dmitri was put through a roller-coaster. First it looked like Pavel was getting off scott-free. Then they announced the verdict on the final count. Sure, his son isn't getting a death sentence, but he is being dishonorably discharged. It is a great stain on the family reputation. And anyone who understands how the court works will recognize that the only reason Pavel did not get the death sentence is politics. It is an embaressment. So Dmitri had cause to be both joyful and publicly embarrassed. But even more, it was yet another stress on the heart, a roller-coaster ride of anxiety.

On Dmitri's decrepit heart, it was one stress too many.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Agree that it was the roller coaster stress that caused Dimitri's heart attack. It was not incompetence that caused Pavel's death - it was his vindictiveness. If he had been willing to forgo his revenge on Honor until he was well established in the political establishment, and not gone after her lover, he would not have ended up on the dueling grounds against a natural born killer.

No, I'm fairly certain that his incompetence also played a huge role. Or Honor wouldn't have had a chance to stoke his fire for revenge, by making him look so bad On Basilisk Station, if Young hadn't been such incompetent scum.

And the entire trial was based on Young's incompetence - which resulted in the deaths of so many spacers, not on his vindictiveness.

cthia wrote:This concern has been meandering in my mind, seeking the entropic path of least resistance.

When Pavel Young was sentenced, Dimitri had a heart attack. I am not certain why Dimitri had a heart attack, since Pavel was convicted on charges that did not carry the death penalty. OK, so he was dishonorably discharged, but why was that a reason to have a heart attack? It seems relief that Pavel wouldn't get the guillotine was a better reaction.

Another concern was why Dmitri supported Pavel's wish to join the navy in the first place, if he was so concerned about his well being. He had to know the level of incompetence in his son. And that that level of incompetence could, would, did get him killed!

And why on Earth, er Manticore, would Young want to join the navy?

SWM wrote:The heart attack was probably caused by stress. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not just bad news that can cause heart attacks. Dmitri was probably poised on the edge of a heart attack through the entire trial--his body was barely being held together with his medical devices. During the verdict, Dmitri was put through a roller-coaster. First it looked like Pavel was getting off scott-free. Then they announced the verdict on the final count. Sure, his son isn't getting a death sentence, but he is being dishonorably discharged. It is a great stain on the family reputation. And anyone who understands how the court works will recognize that the only reason Pavel did not get the death sentence is politics. It is an embaressment. So Dmitri had cause to be both joyful and publicly embarrassed. But even more, it was yet another stress on the heart, a roller-coaster ride of anxiety.

On Dmitri's decrepit heart, it was one stress too many.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Agree that it was the roller coaster stress that caused Dimitri's heart attack. It was not incompetence that caused Pavel's death - it was his vindictiveness. If he had been willing to forgo his revenge on Honor until he was well established in the political establishment, and not gone after her lover, he would not have ended up on the dueling grounds against a natural born killer.

cthia wrote:No, I'm fairly certain that his incompetence also played a huge role. Or Honor wouldn't have had a chance to stoke his fire for revenge, by making him look so bad On Basilisk Station, if Young hadn't been such incompetent scum.

And the entire trial was based on Young's incompetence - which resulted in the deaths of so many spacers, not on his vindictiveness.

His trial was based on cowardice, not incompetence. And it did not lead to his death. His trial effectively made him North Hollow, and granted him entry into the political world, where he was starting to make a name for himself. It was his vindictiveness in have Paul killed that resulted in his death. (I will concede that it was extraordinarily incompetent of him to abuse Georgia when he was dependent on her skills to accomplish much of what needed to be done) So maybe you are right - it was incompetence.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

cthia wrote:This concern has been meandering in my mind, seeking the entropic path of least resistance.

When Pavel Young was sentenced, Dimitri had a heart attack. I am not certain why Dimitri had a heart attack, since Pavel was convicted on charges that did not carry the death penalty. OK, so he was dishonorably discharged, but why was that a reason to have a heart attack? It seems relief that Pavel wouldn't get the guillotine was a better reaction.

Another concern was why Dmitri supported Pavel's wish to join the navy in the first place, if he was so concerned about his well being. He had to know the level of incompetence in his son. And that that level of incompetence could, would, did get him killed!

And why on Earth, er Manticore, would Young want to join the navy?

SWM wrote:The heart attack was probably caused by stress. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not just bad news that can cause heart attacks. Dmitri was probably poised on the edge of a heart attack through the entire trial--his body was barely being held together with his medical devices. During the verdict, Dmitri was put through a roller-coaster. First it looked like Pavel was getting off scott-free. Then they announced the verdict on the final count. Sure, his son isn't getting a death sentence, but he is being dishonorably discharged. It is a great stain on the family reputation. And anyone who understands how the court works will recognize that the only reason Pavel did not get the death sentence is politics. It is an embaressment. So Dmitri had cause to be both joyful and publicly embarrassed. But even more, it was yet another stress on the heart, a roller-coaster ride of anxiety.

On Dmitri's decrepit heart, it was one stress too many.

fallsfromtrees wrote:Agree that it was the roller coaster stress that caused Dimitri's heart attack. It was not incompetence that caused Pavel's death - it was his vindictiveness. If he had been willing to forgo his revenge on Honor until he was well established in the political establishment, and not gone after her lover, he would not have ended up on the dueling grounds against a natural born killer.

cthia wrote:No, I'm fairly certain that his incompetence also played a huge role. Or Honor wouldn't have had a chance to stoke his fire for revenge, by making him look so bad On Basilisk Station, if Young hadn't been such incompetent scum.

And the entire trial was based on Young's incompetence - which resulted in the deaths of so many spacers, not on his vindictiveness.

His trial was based on cowardice, not incompetence. And it did not lead to his death. His trial effectively made him North Hollow, and granted him entry into the political world, where he was starting to make a name for himself. It was his vindictiveness in have Paul killed that resulted in his death. (I will concede that it was extraordinarily incompetent of him to abuse Georgia when he was dependent on her skills to accomplish much of what needed to be done) So maybe you are right - it was incompetence.

Good point. I plum forgot about the cowardice. I posted in the POV thread that I'd like the POV of Pavel scurrying about like a frightened mouse - per Georgia.

But his incompetence in OBS did start the ball rolling. But. Can we really blame just Young for OBS when every other CO before him was just as schitty a PB&J sandwich?

cthia wrote:snip for brevity
Good point. I plum forgot about the cowardice. I posted in the POV thread that I'd like the POV of Pavel scurrying about like a frightened mouse - per Georgia.

But his incompetence in OBS did start the ball rolling. But. Can we really blame just Young for OBS when every other CO before him was just as schitty a PB&J sandwich?

The true blame for the condition of Basilisk Station can be directly laid at the feet of Janacek, and unfortunately the Admiralty didn't cashier him instead of beaching him when he did get ejected from the seat of power - it might have helped a little bit in the interregnum.

cthia wrote:But his incompetence in OBS did start the ball rolling. But. Can we really blame just Young for OBS when every other CO before him was just as schitty a PB&J sandwich?

No, it was laziness and vindictiveness. He didn't want to be at Basilisk and stuck Honor with a sucky job without the resources to do it right so he could knife her over it later.

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:But his incompetence in OBS did start the ball rolling. But. Can we really blame just Young for OBS when every other CO before him was just as schitty a PB&J sandwich?

No, it was laziness and vindictiveness. He didn't want to be at Basilisk and stuck Honor with a sucky job without the resources to do it right so he could knife her over it later.

Right - He was a petty, small-minded vindictive SOB (son of a bastard) who appeared to be unable to learn from experience - i.e., don't f*** with Honor - you are just going to get hurt in the end.

cthia wrote:

And the entire trial was based on Young's incompetence - which resulted in the deaths of so many spacers, not on his vindictiveness.

Admittedly there was no way to make Pavel Young look any worse than he actually was.

However, However the actual charges were the failure to obey the orders of a superior and cowardice in the face of the enemy. He could have and should have faced a firing squad upon conviction for that.

Don

kzt wrote:

cthia wrote:But his incompetence in OBS did start the ball rolling. But. Can we really blame just Young for OBS when every other CO before him was just as schitty a PB&J sandwich?

No, it was laziness and vindictiveness. He didn't want to be at Basilisk and stuck Honor with a sucky job without the resources to do it right so he could knife her over it later.

Not that this is any defense of Young, but both CL Fearless and CA Warlock together were not sufficient resources to do the job right (note that the post-OBS picket was substantially larger than two ships, and by McQueen has Giscard attack Basilisk, there are wallers on-station). It wouldn't have changed the events of OBS much if Honor had Warlock (and that's all Young had prior to HH showing up) instead of Fearless, except that rather more of her crew would have survived the final battle against Sirius (Conglin still would have tried to fight a CA, because he's got BC-level weaponry and doesn't know how tough Star Knights are).