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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:05 pm

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SWM wrote:
cthia wrote:I considered that Honor may not be on the need to know list as well. But I quickly dismissed it.

I felt the need to consider the actual war effort. For instance, when Hamish was getting his head handed to him at Trevor's Star by McQueen. I would imagine that he'd be told, if only to keep up morale, despite the asskicking he was presently getting, that things look better over the horizon.

Same for Harrington, who, it seems, was always going on the offensive with 25 % of the required order of battle.

Hamish wasn't told about Ghost Rider and CLACs until it the decision was made to move it from development to deployment. Despite the fact that Hamish had been fighting to get Trevor's Star for so long.
Seems also, there'd be a need to begin pondering the manifold shift in tactical thinking, and how to best use the new systems - therefore certain officers would be given a heads-up and a leg-up. Especially with an attritional war fought with a numerically superior opponent as Haven was.

That is the job of BuPlan. And I don't think they would be involved until the weapon is near the end of the development phase. You're right, though, I forgot to include the upper echelons of BuPlan.

If BuPlan decided they needed the input of officers on the front lines, they might bring some in for consult. But their entire job is to formulate strategy and tactics with the weapons available. That's what they do, and I don't think they need to call in consultants very often. I imagine that they already have a constantly changing roster of officers with recent combat experience who have been rotated into BuPlan for some period of time, specifically to provide that perspective.

But perhaps you're right after all. That's why I ask you military types.

Well, I'm not a military type either. I'll happily defer to anyone else with actual military knowledge. :)

cthia wrote:Thanks for the reminder about Hamish not having been informed. But I wonder if that was just formally.

Wasn't Caparelli First Space Lord during the bout for Trevor's Star? It seems that he would let certain information informally leak to White Haven.

It just seems that close friends would have a hard time keeping certain info from close friends. I've always wondered about 'classified' information in that respect.

No for two reasons. First of all, they weren't that close friends at the time of the run-up to Trevor's Star - they respected each other, but were not friends. Secondly, both White Haven and Caparelli understand security, and would not casually spread classified info for the sake of gossip.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:39 pm

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cthia wrote:
SWM wrote:Well, I'm not a military type either. I'll happily defer to anyone else with actual military knowledge. :)

Thanks for the reminder about Hamish not having been informed. But I wonder if that was just formally.

Wasn't Caparelli First Space Lord during the bout for Trevor's Star? It seems that he would let certain information informally leak to White Haven.

It just seems that close friends would have a hard time keeping certain info from close friends. I've always wondered about 'classified' information in that respect.

Caparelli and White Haven were not friends--they were rivals, dating back to their sports days. They respected each other on the battlefield, but they didn't really like each other until much later.

And keeping secrets like that is what security is all about. There's no way that the First Space Lord would let out a secret like that without darn good reason.

I don't think Haven would have been quite so angry about Ghost Rider if he had gotten word of it before then. Remember, he hadn't even read the spec sheets, just the summary, and Honor slammed him for it.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:26 pm

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Estelle Matsuko believed that the Medusans' native culture was inevitably doomed because of Manticore's presence, a belief shared by her predecessor, Baron Hightower.


Does this remind anyone else of Star Trek's Prime Directive?

(My niece made this connection.)

She says it seems to be a staple in many Sci-Fi works. Does anyone know of the notion predating Trek?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:51 pm

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Will a treecat ever obtain nobility? Via Manticore or Grayson?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:05 pm

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Does anyone ever wonder what kind of creatures must lurk beneath the oceans of, say, Sphinx? With their higher gravity, the ocean's depths must really spawn some satans of the deep. Piranhas the size of dolphins. How 'bout an octopus with eighty arms, octogintapus.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by stewart   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:36 pm

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cthia wrote:Will a treecat ever obtain nobility? Via Manticore or Grayson?


--------------------

In a sense, they already have their own hierarchy -- Singers at the top (of course), then functional role leads -- hunters / scouts / tool makers etc.

I am not sure the 'cats would either recognize the social standing or wish to be obedient to the feudal obligations.

-- Stewart
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:32 pm

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POV of the guerilla tactics of cats. Cats are so intelligent that their collective hunting skills must be as elaborate as Harrington's tactics. Treecat Generals?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:33 pm

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What happens if a treecat commits a felony?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:13 pm

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cthia wrote:
Estelle Matsuko believed that the Medusans' native culture was inevitably doomed because of Manticore's presence, a belief shared by her predecessor, Baron Hightower.


Does this remind anyone else of Star Trek's Prime Directive?

(My niece made this connection.)

She says it seems to be a staple in many Sci-Fi works. Does anyone know of the notion predating Trek?

It is definitely reminiscent of the Prime Directive.

I am fairly certain that there were some stories with similar concepts before Star Trek. But none were as clearly codified as the Prime Directive. Unfortunately, with an hour's thought, I still can't come up with any examples. Wikipedia mentions Star Maker, by Olaf Stapledon, 1937. I'll keep thinking and looking through my collection for other examples.

It can certainly be stated that the Prime Directive is the one which popularized the concept. Almost all examples since then are modeled on the Prime Directive, or in some cases deliberately in contrast to the Prime Directive.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by George J. Smith   » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:51 pm

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What was the first question Nimitz asked Honor once Honor was able to understand treecat sign?

(maybe, Why do you call me stinker?)
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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