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What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.

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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:27 am

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Hi FallsFromTrees,

I think we can both agree the Saltash system is being swept by rumors bordering on panic, which the OFS will exploit beginning immediately.

Countering that ASAP is increasingly a big part of the RMN's and Zavala's mission, if not his primary one, which I think he was smart enough to see and act.

Undercutting the SL and the OFS, NTM Duenas's authority as much and as quickly as possible by providing all the truth not limited by naval security seems obvious.

I think both republics would prefer to restrict the governor's powers to keeping the peace between them, NTM such a statement would be a heads up that the universe is changing, so begin to prepare now.

Destroying Duenas's credibility so obviously would probably push him into acts that will get him quickly relieved, if he doesn't flee first.

Even though it's less than 400 words and probably around 5 minutes in audio length, I realise my draft is probably too wordy; getting it nearer to the length of the Gettysburg Address would be great, so I'm more than willing to accept suggested edits to improve it and tighten things up, so what would you drop?

The reference to the 1% casualty ratio?

Can you offer other alternative passages?

L


fallsfromtrees wrote:
lyonheart wrote:Hi all,

Captain Jacob Zavala in SoF, is another brilliant character like Terekhov, but I'm curious if any of you like me wondered what he did after recovering the freighter crews.

For example I think he called McNaughtan to notify him all his personnel had evacuated Shona Station so the damage repair crews could return to module 7 ASAP, as well as requesting all information on who, how many, and how often had visited the freighters in the absence of their crews for security purposes before starting the fusion plants etc and leaving the system.

That's besides getting hard copy records of the brig security videos of the Gendarme treatment of the freighter crews, or by hacking the Module 7 communication systems, indicating they didn't bother with any medical isolation protocols or treatment, as part of the confirmation of Zavala and the RMN's justification for using force to recover their illegally held citizens.

Searching the ships could have taken some hours [according to SoS] even if the search teams were much larger than Abbie had the first time, but even assuming it didn't, Captain Zavala would have been quite busy checking everything including his medical officers' checkups of the freighter crews, monitoring the SAR etc.

Once the freighters were cleared and underway, I believe he would have contacted Captain Myau to alert her she could re-board her ships in about 40 minutes and suggest that part of the problem that created the incident was a lack of hard information in Saltash, ie if Duenas had truly known what had happened in in Spindle he wouldn't have tried such foolishness, nor Admiral Dubroskaya agree to such stupidity; and provide her downloads of Spindle including the Sollie reporters', plus New Tuscany and even Monica, and letting her tech's confirm they weren't edited or falsified; and even offer her the option of sending a db or one of her DD's to Spindle with an introduction [safe passage] from him to confirm those reports.

Once those chores were done and before leaving the system, I'd expect him to make some kind of announcement to the planet Cinnamon, on all possible channels to reduce jamming etc, to reduce the likely panic and rumor mongering.

He might have tried something like this:

"Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Captain Jacob Zavala of the Royal Manticoran Navy.

I regret the unnecessary loss of life today because Governor Duenas unlawfully held Manticoran citizens from their freighters, which is an interstellar recognised act of piracy; despite claiming it was a medical emergency but didn't treat them or allow my doctors to review the claims as required by the Treaty of Beowulf, then he foolishly refused to believe I wouldn't carry out my orders to free them.

Admiral Dubroskaya and several thousand of her crewmen then lost their lives obeying his orders.

He again refused to order the gendarmes to release them from their brig, so my personnel had to go get them causing some damage to module 7 of Shona station, but Captain McNaughtan assures me all Saltash civilians were and are safe and normal traffic will resume within the hour.

Admiral Dubroskaya and thousands of her spacers died because too little is known about the Battle of Spindle, New Tuscany, and Monica here in Saltash; so let me rectify that now with more recent news.

Here are the official reports and protests by the SEM to Old Chicago of each incident, and by Solly reporters both during and after NT and Spindle; let your own tech's confirm these haven't been edited or faked.

Needless to say, compared to what happened in Spindle, today's SLN casualties are roughly 1% or a drop in the bucket, but unless the SLN learns it can't stand up to us, more are going to die the next time something like this happens, so this is my bid to alert the SLN about the true state of power between us, to stop wasting so many lives.

If Captain Myau doesn't send a ship, feel free to send a db or freighter. Confirming the truth should have been the first step before starting on a course that got so many people killed.

If the Solarian League in its ignorant arrogance continues to treat us like neo-barbs when we are closer to Sol than 99% of the league, the deadly results will only get worse, and again be entirely their fault.

Captain Zavala, clear."

Feel free to agree or rant at will. ;)

L

Too wordy. A basic statement that the governor had illegally sequestered Manticore citizens, and ordered resistance to freeing them that resulted in the destruction of the SLN forces in the system. They have now been freed, and we are leaving the system. Have a nice day.
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:31 am

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Hi Don,

There are times when being too silent can be too detrimental to your overall purpose.

It's not just fighting for the hearts and minds of just Saltash, but the verge and all the protectorates, NTM the rational states in the SL, ie the quarter that voted with Beowulf, who need to see and hear the GA [even if Captain Zavala didn't know it yet existed] makes its case that the OFS abuses must end.

The other freighter(s) will definitely spread the word, as will Captain Myau, though Duenas might try to delay her report, which might include Cicely Tiilikainen's among others. ;)

I suspect Damian Duenas is smart enough to realise Zavala exposing all his lies in this incident, including downloads of their conversations, would destroy the last vestige of any moral authority he has left, but more importantly the implications the SEM can defeat the SLN at will indicates at least one paradigm change in the universe as he had known it, ie that being relieved by MacArtney may take longer than the OFS has left, in at least that sector, if not the least of his worries.

I suspect such downloads would provide Captain Myau enough ammunition that if Duenas ordered her to make kinetic strikes on Cinnamon, against massive protests aimed at him; she could easily refuse because its another indication of his increasingly insane behavior, and support his removal and temporary replacement by Tiilikainen.

Damian is paranoid enough to see that possibility, and attempt to cling to power in ways that will speed his fall, possibly by his trusted aide, who knows when to abandon a sinking ship.

Given Zavala has already thought in his mind that "we don't owe" the Sollies anything, boldly declaring the truth and providing the many new facts Saltash and the other nearby systems weren't aware of after successfully achieving his primary mission, seems a no brainer to me.

This thread wasn't intended to cover the beginnings of the non-RMN Abbie Hearns fan club on Shona station and Cinnamon after her thoughtful insults to the Solarian Gendarme captain recorded by the local space station pickups, and probably spread virally, despite all that MacNaughtan can do officially, but we can also add that to the mix I guess. ;)

L


n7axw wrote:What Zuvalla does is go over the recovered freighters checking for booby traps and then goes home. No speeches necessary.

Don
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:47 am

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Hi Hutch,

Isn't this fun?

I think your version of my suggested speech draft would be pithier and better than mine.

I wouldn't be surprised if Duenas would suspect Zavala had spoken to MacNaughtan etc as you suggest, even if he hadn't.

Accusing them rightly of treason is giving him too much of a weapon.

Making the threat implicit but not explicit, to the whole system rather than any specific individuals, seems a far better way to go.

L


Hutch wrote:
n7axw wrote:What Zuvalla does is go over the recovered freighters checking for booby traps and then goes home. No speeches necessary.

Don


Probably no speeches, but I imagine he may have had some parting words with Captain Valentine MacNaughtan, the Saltashian commander of the Space Station....who, since he had her private com channel, just might have patched Cicely Tiilikainen in....

And the words Zavala would speak would have been short, sweet and to the point, i.e., "If you let that idiot in the Governor's chair slip his chains again, I will be back and I can guarantee it will not be pleasant."
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:52 am

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Hi KZT,

I love your brevity, NTM your echoing Abbie's speech to the boarding party, it's a great tag warning.

I regret I'm so verbose and loquacious, but its so easy and quick.

I also regret missing HonorCon 2 and meeting you, if you weren't at HonorCon 1.

L


kzt wrote:And if you do it again we'll be back, and we will be angry. You don't want to see what we do when we are angry. Have a nice day.
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:14 am

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Hi SharkHunter,

Please feel free to share what needs to be added to the speech.

Kudos for some excellent points, but I don't expect the sane Saltash leaders to be so eager for such treason at this point and its unnecessary.

If any of Dubroskaya's senior officers were among the rescued and report her discussions and orders from Duenas, Myau ought to have even more ammunition to possibly arrest Duenas for his part in getting ~6000 FF crewmen killed.

Merely informing the Cinnamon public of what happened can't be construed as incitement to rebellion and treason.

I don't think Myau would go along with your proposal at all at this point, nor do I think Cicely or Valentine would be that amenable either.

However, if they began to frame it in the context of Saltash can't afford to have something worse happen from Duenas's next brainstorm, interesting things might happen.

Tiilikainen is the critical actor, since she's now made contact with the other two and could relay what he plans to do next.

Then there's Maxence Kodou, Duenas's aide; he seems too competent for Duenas, now that he's obviously screwed up and won't climb any further, he's of no further use to Kodou, so he could dispose of Duenas suddenly several surprising ways before Myau has to use her few hundred marines, though the ~2600 survivors of Battlecruiser Squadron 491 might do something before she does, especially if they include some senior officers.

I could see her dispatching one of her DD's ASAP after the crew has all returned aboard to report this engagement to higher HQ as per standing orders; and Duenas trying to stop her with orders to stay put, all her ships are needed in Saltash to defend the system etc.

At which point, she would remind Duenas that any attempt to delay her report would be treason, which wouldn't help him look any better in her report, but she might then use that pretext to arrest him and take him back aboard that ship to answer for his actions ASAP.

We don't know where the sector HQ might be, but she might order it or another to go all the way to Sol via Mesa which might take a month, while the one sent to the nearest HQ might return in 3 weeks.

I'd love to get some insights from you and other posters into what all three of these leaders think of the paradigm changes in the universe they thought they knew, as a result of Zavala sharing the latest news he had.

L


SharkHunter wrote:As they say "snip":
Probably no speeches, but I imagine he may have had some parting words with Captain Valentine MacNaughtan, the Saltashian commander of the Space Station....who, since he had her private com channel, just might have patched Cicely Tillikainen in....

And the words Zavala would speak would have been short, sweet and to the point, i.e., "If you let that idiot in the Governor's chair slip his chains again, I will be back and I can guarantee it will not be pleasant."


Actually I'm thinking that since Commodores in 10th Fleet seem to be able to find their shoelaces even in the dark, the speech might be a little bit longer, because as far back as Mission of Honor, the RMN strategists have realized that the best use for the SLN is in large, trading partner size chunks that are friendly. Given that in Saltash the remaining a) political command, b) station command, and c) naval command are actually honorable, intelligent people, who might collectively agree that slipping the OFS collar would be a good idea... I think you know where I'm going, something along the lines of...

"What would you think of me contacting my bosses (Medusa and Henke) and maybe initialing a basing agreement [a la Sidemore Station...]". No bribes or rake off percentages required."

Myau would probably have to agree to withdraw and not be part of the initial mix, however, because I don't see her as treasonous even to the SLN, unless -- given that she's going to get scapegoated a la Alfredo Yu at the end of HoQ, she might do something similar however, and request asylum with Saltash.
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:06 am

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Hi Don,

You're quite right that everyone was still holding their breath about what was going to happen next, NTM its way too early for Myau to fold and seek asylum with the SEM.

However, once news that Mesa has been taken, isolating this lobe from the rest of the SL, Saltash's options expand considerably, and seeking some accommodation with the GA is quite possible.

Given the protectorate fees that would no longer be sucked out of the system, I suspect Meyers, Saltash, and Seraphim would enjoy quite an economic boost, once liberated, before getting into dealing with transtellar property.

L


n7axw wrote:
SharkHunter wrote:As they say "snip": *quote*Probably no speeches, but I imagine he may have had some parting words with Captain Valentine MacNaughtan, the Saltashian commander of the Space Station....who, since he had her private com channel, just might have patched Cicely Tillikainen in....

And the words Zavala would speak would have been short, sweet and to the point, i.e., "If you let that idiot in the Governor's chair slip his chains again, I will be back and I can guarantee it will not be pleasant."*quote*

Actually I'm thinking that since Commodores in 10th Fleet seem to be able to find their shoelaces even in the dark, the speech might be a little bit longer, because as far back as Mission of Honor, the RMN strategists have realized that the best use for the SLN is in large, trading partner size chunks that are friendly. Given that in Saltash the remaining a) political command, b) station command, and c) naval command are actually honorable, intelligent people, who might collectively agree that slipping the OFS collar would be a good idea... I think you know where I'm going, something along the lines of...

"What would you think of me contacting my bosses (Medusa and Henke) and maybe initialing a basing agreement [a la Sidemore Station...]". No bribes or rake off percentages required."

Myau would probably have to agree to withdraw and not be part of the initial mix, however, because I don't see her as treasonous even to the SLN, unless -- given that she's going to get scapegoated a la Alfredo Yu at the end of HoQ, she might do something similar however, and request asylum with Saltash.


Actually not a bad idea, but a bit premature at this point in SOF.

Everybody is stll holding their breath, hoping for an outbreak of sense in Old Chicago. It's a bit later that word reaches Mike and she moves on Meyers. After it's clear that the war with the League is on, your idea makes sense after they properly deal with Deunas, of course. Can't have a less than intelligent OFS governor mucking things up.

Don
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:18 am

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Hi FallsFromTrees,

We don't know the OFS sector sizes, which might not be uniform; though I've suggested a uniform size based on 256 equal sections of 22.5 degrees on a side that are ~100 light years deep [~2+ layers], but the textev suggests the sectors are much bigger, so Saltash might indeed be in the Madras.

From the textev of Oversteegen blocking Thurgood, the RMN hyper footprint included 5 light cruisers, ie Rolands.

So Zavala might have gone to Meyers, even though Mike apparently left all her DD's behind.

RFC will have to sort things like this out sooner or later.

L


fallsfromtrees wrote:
SharkHunter wrote:As they say "snip": *quote*Probably no speeches, but I imagine he may have had some parting words with Captain Valentine MacNaughtan, the Saltashian commander of the Space Station....who, since he had her private com channel, just might have patched Cicely Tillikainen in....

And the words Zavala would speak would have been short, sweet and to the point, i.e., "If you let that idiot in the Governor's chair slip his chains again, I will be back and I can guarantee it will not be pleasant."*quote*

Actually I'm thinking that since Commodores in 10th Fleet seem to be able to find their shoelaces even in the dark, the speech might be a little bit longer, because as far back as Mission of Honor, the RMN strategists have realized that the best use for the SLN is in large, trading partner size chunks that are friendly. Given that in Saltash the remaining a) political command, b) station command, and c) naval command are actually honorable, intelligent people, who might collectively agree that slipping the OFS collar would be a good idea... I think you know where I'm going, something along the lines of...

"What would you think of me contacting my bosses (Medusa and Henke) and maybe initialing a basing agreement [a la Sidemore Station...]". No bribes or rake off percentages required."

Myau would probably have to agree to withdraw and not be part of the initial mix, however, because I don't see her as treasonous even to the SLN, unless -- given that she's going to get scapegoated a la Alfredo Yu at the end of HoQ, she might do something similar however, and request asylum with Saltash.
n7axw wrote:
Actually not a bad idea, but a bit premature at this point in SOF.

Everybody is stll holding their breath, hoping for an outbreak of sense in Old Chicago. It's a bit later that word reaches Mike and she moves on Meyers. After it's clear that the war with the League is on, your idea makes sense after they properly deal with Deunas, of course. Can't have a less than intelligent OFS governor mucking things up.

Don

But the end of SoF, while Henke is moving on Mesa, she is also sending lighter ships around to all of the systems in the Madras sector to let them know about the change of ownership. I don't remember if the Saltash system is a part of that sector, although it seems likely, since Henke was tasked with dealing with it. If Zavala is the Officer in Charge who calls on Saltash, thing could get very interesting.
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by n7axw   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:25 pm

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My mother used to say that a picture is worth a thousand words. I would think that the picture of what happened to those BCs along with Abbey's op on the station coupled with the fact that Zuvalla did what he said he was going to do paints exactly the message that the RMN wants left behind paints both the picture summarized by "don't mess with us combined with "we're not here to mess with you."

Don
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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:19 pm

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n7axw wrote:My mother used to say that a picture is worth a thousand words. I would think that the picture of what happened to those BCs along with Abbey's op on the station coupled with the fact that Zuvalla did what he said he was going to do paints exactly the message that the RMN wants left behind paints both the picture summarized by "don't mess with us combined with "we're not here to mess with you."

Don

Along with what didn't happen to Myau, when she in fact stood down her ships, and nothing happened to them.
========================

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Re: What did Captain Zavala do next? and the SL's reaction.
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:09 pm

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Hi Lyonheart,

you seem to be engaged on this, but. . .

Saltash might be in the Madras Sector area of interest, but it is not Sollie territory; it isn't even a real protectorate.That was covered in the text. Damian's title of Governor is a courtesy, not reality. And he did NOT send the report through Verrochio, which he would have, if he was subordinate to that office.

I assumed Saltash and Dueñas (sp?) were getting support from somewhere else, as Thurgood wasn't talking about that group of ships when he briefed Verrochio just before Yucel headed for Mobius.

In Shadow of Saganami, Thurgood was commodore of a cruiser squadron; Monica was a real squeeeally wheel, so when we see him again they're battlecruisers.

But Saltash is hundreds of lightyears from Meyers, if there is truth in the paper map. The sheer size of the Talbott Quadrant doesn't mean all the neighbors have the same-size territory. Sector doesn't seem to have a single definition. :)

And Saltash, as an individual system, doesn't have either the humanitarian problems of Moebius/Seraphim/Loomis, nor the economic strength to warrent interfering without need.

I think that the response from OFS HQ will be enough to deal with Damien. McCartney will indeed, crucify him.

Regards,

Rob









lyonheart wrote:Hi FallsFromTrees,

We don't know the OFS sector sizes, which might not be uniform; though I've suggested a uniform size based on 256 equal sections of 22.5 degrees on a side that are ~100 light years deep [~2+ layers], but the textev suggests the sectors are much bigger, so Saltash might indeed be in the Madras.

From the textev of Oversteegen blocking Thurgood, the RMN hyper footprint included 5 light cruisers, ie Rolands.

So Zavala might have gone to Meyers, even though Mike apparently left all her DD's behind.

RFC will have to sort things like this out sooner or later.

L
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