(SPOILERS) Too worried about waking up Dad?

n7axw wrote:

Randomiser wrote:
I'm sure an RFC post definitively ruled out Langhorne having a PICA built as totally alien to his intentions. I'm pretty sure the same post ruled out anyone on his side building a PICA for the same reason.

I'll go see if I can come up with that post or look again in the pearls. But to address your comment, yes he did. But as you recall, Langhorne disappeared in a cloud of atoms when Pei Kauyung sprung his little surprise. We know that the command crew fractured during the War Against the Fallen and the winners could well have constructed the PICA. And if Chihiro or Schueler had done that, it wouldn't be the first time disciples betrayed their master's intentions.

As I pointed out, all of the tech built into the temple would have been a betrayal of what the anti-tech faction believed they were standing against.

Don

fallsfromtrees wrote:

n7axw wrote:On the return of the archangels...

A PICA that was built on Terra has been ruled out by RFC. A PICA that was built after arrival on Safehold in possible, but unlikely due to anti tech bias of archangels, although one does have to remember that the same bunch did build TF tech into the temple, didn't they? So maybe a home grown PICA wouldn't be out of the question...

Cyro has to be pretty much ruled out since its expected longivity was only about 40-50 yr.

What's left would be either an AI or some sort of VR, either of which could be set up to awaken on a timer the way Nimue did...And, of course, they could have built the PICA after all...

Don

But if you are going to build a PICA or an AI, why wait 1000 years before waking up to check to see how things are going? This is the stumbling block for all of this - it'll be interesting to see how RFC resolves it.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Yes and No.

Even Langhorne allowed High Tech to support his fake religion.

So the High Tech in the Temple is to high-light to the people and clergy of Safehold the Truth of Langhorne's religion.

A fake Religion that is intended to prevent the development of High Tech on Safehold.

IE a Nasty form of "ends" justifies the "means".

n7axw wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:Yes and No.

Even Langhorne allowed High Tech to support his fake religion.

So the High Tech in the Temple is to high-light to the people and clergy of Safehold the Truth of Langhorne's religion.

A fake Religion that is intended to prevent the development of High Tech on Safehold.

IE a Nasty form of "ends" justifies the "means".

Agreed. But my point is that there is no reason that a PICA couldn't have been used to serve their little scheme. The principle would be the same.

Don

fallsfromtrees wrote:

n7axw wrote:

Agreed. But my point is that there is no reason that a PICA couldn't have been used to serve their little scheme. The principle would be the same.

Don

Langhorne probably didn't have a PICA or time to set one up, as Kau Yung took him and most of the CoG out with his vest pocket nuke. Therefore, if there is a PICA, it was set up by some of the surviving command crew, after the war against the fallen was concluded. Since by that time is was apparent that things might go astray (they'd just fought a war over it), you would either want the PICA to run continuously (if there was no 10 day limit), or to wake up every 100 years or so to make sure things are on track. It makes no sense whatsoever to have it wait a full thousand years to wake up.

I am increasingly convinced that in fact nothing is going to happen on the 1000 year anniversary - that is is like the expectation the Christ would return at the end of 1000 years that shook Europe around 1000 AD. It was a promise of the Archangels will return, to try an keep stuff on track, without actually happening. Note that the return is 1000 years after the "Creation", not 1000 years after the end of the War against the Fallen, which implies that it was set up before the War against the Fallen.

DrakBibliophile wrote:According to the conversation between Merlin and Nahrmahn (after he woke up in VR land), VR personalities do have a "limited lifespan".

Quote From Midst Toil And Tribulation

“It goes a little further than that for some people. Some virtual personalities simply can’t handle the knowledge that they’re only recordings of someone else—copies, not the original. So while some personalities become terminally bored, weary, of a ‘pocket universe’ that doesn’t contain anybody else ‘real’ aside from whatever other virtual personalities’ve been loaded to it, others withdraw into themselves and eventually shut down completely. Effectively, they go catatonic and withdraw from the only reality they have because it isn’t really reality at all, as far as they’re concerned.”

End Quote

So while there might be a "stored Archangel" out there, it likely hasn't been active for "all this time".

First, there's the problem of why did the Virtual Archangel allow the Church to go wrong.

Second, the Virtual Archangel would not survive in Virtual Space for so long especially when you realize that time in Virtual Space passes very quickly compared to time in Human Space.

Cheopis wrote:Ah, but an AI / Recording of an archangel does not need to be a PICA. Owl was able to make a recorder. Langhorne had at least one super secret team in place. Nahrmann does not have a limited lifespan in the virtual world, I'm pretty sure.

DrakBibliophile wrote:All this talk about PICAs and Langhorne's "anti-tech" mindset caused me to recall David Weber's comment on Langhorne and PICAs in the thread "Langhorne's big mistake".

In short, Langhorne and his command staff were anti-tech and would not have brought along any PICAs and very likely would not have built any later on.

By the way fallsfromtrees, while David Weber hasn't given anything away concerning the Return, he has made comments that confirm that the Return is a Real Event that will occur.