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"King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art

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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by isaac_newton   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:13 am

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I've got nothing to say on the technical details, and their rightness or wrongness, but I would like to thank you for taking the time to do that illustration.

Seeing it gave me a real 'aaaaah' feeling - and a much clearer impression of how mind blowing the KGH's would be/will be to the NOG/AOG people, even to any that, by some v odd coincidence, happened to have actually seen the Great Canal raid boats.

Just out of interest, roughly how long would one of the galleons be by comparison - half the length?
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by pokermind   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:14 am

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Dilandu wrote:
Colleague, i know it perfectly. The problem is always - what part of the gun barrel is INSIDE the turret or casemate? ;)


I grew up in Pocatello, Idaho and at age six visited the Naval Ordnance plant there, Imagine a sixteen inch naval rifle between centers, the operator riding the tool carriage as the huge gun turns at 1-3 RPM. The tool bit was two inches square, 50mm. They used water to keep the liner cold while heating the exterior to remove a worn lining, OH the steam!

We discussed this plant and someone posted a photo of a 16" gun on its mount. As a WAG about a tenth of the length would be behind the splinter shield. Here's a link to a 4"/50 showing mount, splinter shield removed but about where that bar on top of the gun sits, this particular gun fired the first shot of the USA in WW II on the USS Ward at Pearl Harbor.

Poker
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:23 am

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isaac_newton wrote:I've got nothing to say on the technical details, and their rightness or wrongness, but I would like to thank you for taking the time to do that illustration.

Seeing it gave me a real 'aaaaah' feeling - and a much clearer impression of how mind blowing the KGH's would be/will be to the NOG/AOG people, even to any that, by some v odd coincidence, happened to have actually seen the Great Canal raid boats.

Just out of interest, roughly how long would one of the galleons be by comparison - half the length?


Thank you!

Well, the real galleons was about 30 to 50 meters between perpendiculars. So... the KH would be more than three times bigger than the average, and more than twice bigger than the biggest. ;) For the sail-level navy... it would be a psychological shock of inprecedent level; enought for even the Church crews to just ran the ship around and run away.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by pokermind   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:48 am

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Found this cut away drawing of a 16" turret on Iowa Class BBs that shows how little of the length in in the turret or behind the splinter shield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun#mediaviewer/File:Iowa_16_inch_Gun-EN.svg you can look at lager view and it's a good render Using the old hash marks on paper method looks like a third of the gun is in the turret, and two thirds outside :D Note the shock absorbing cylinders that allow gun to recoil are top mounted so gun can be raised to a high angle after loading by lowering the breach.

Poker
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"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by runsforcelery   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:07 am

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pokermind wrote:Found this cut away drawing of a 16" turret on Iowa Class BBs that shows how little of the length in in the turret or behind the splinter shield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun#mediaviewer/File:Iowa_16_inch_Gun-EN.svg you can look at lager view and it's a good render Using the old hash marks on paper method looks like a third of the gun is in the turret, and two thirds outside :D Note the shock absorbing cylinders that allow gun to recoil are top mounted so gun can be raised to a high angle after loading by lowering the breach.

Poker


Poker, I don't think he's far out at all on the indicated barrel lengths. Maybe a little, but not much. I'm using the standard US practice in which the barrel length includes the breech. Therefore a 10" 40 cal is 400 inches (33' 4") including breech, and it looks to me like (allowing for the portion behind the shield) he's about right on that. Hard to tell from the image on my laptop, but overall, pretty darned close, I'd say.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by pokermind   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:26 am

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runsforcelery wrote:
[snip quote]

Poker, I don't think he's far out at all on the indicated barrel lengths. Maybe a little, but not much. I'm using the standard US practice in which the barrel length includes the breech. Therefore a 10" 40 cal is 400 inches (33' 4") including breech, and it looks to me like (allowing for the portion behind the shield) he's about right on that. Hard to tell from the image on my laptop, but overall, pretty darned close, I'd say.


On guns what is the maximum elevation like say 45 degrees and how much recoil for each gun, that will determine the height of the gun above the deck IE (Sine (angle) x (length recoil + length end of breach to trunnion at rest)) + distance from trunnion to bottom of recoil rail gives the trunnion height above deck
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by mh1   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:46 pm

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Dilandu, RFC Thanks for this thread.

:D
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:48 pm

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mh1 wrote:Dilandu, RFC Thanks for this thread.

:D


Indeed, many thanks for the illustrations and for fueling an interesting exchange on the arcana of ship design.

I do miss the black hull and red strands above and below the guns/gun ports of the broadside.
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by John Prigent   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:42 pm

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Because my Latin was learnt many decades ago and I've forgotten most it!
Cheers
John
PS: Churchill was correct - why would anyone want to say 'Oh table'?

Boronian wrote:
John Prigent wrote:numquam est utilis auctor conquiritis - sciat quod scripsit.

Cheers
John


Did you want to use "utilis est" as it is useful to? Then it should be "utile", as "it" is neuter, and be constructed with infinitive hence "conquirere". I suppose "auctor" is the object to "conquirere" therefore it should be "auctorem" as conquirere uses the accusative.
I wonder why the subjuntive in "sciat".
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Re: "King Haarahld VI"-class, paint art
Post by phillies   » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:47 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:They aren't thinking in terms of hits that take out the mast, and even if that happens, they aren't thinking in terms of long range gunnery. If they were going to be fighting peer warships, that would be a factor. They aren't, so it isn't.


When a ship captain who is still trying to adjust to the transition to galleon from oars -- the oars that God doubtless intended -- encounters a King Haraald, thinking may not be highest on his list of priorities, unless he is really, really good.
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