Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by evilauthor   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:07 pm

evilauthor
Captain of the List

Posts: 724
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:51 pm

cralkhi wrote:I wonder if they really could enrich uranium? IIRC there wasn't much gap between getting the theory straight and actually doing it in RL, so if somebody handed the Charisians the theory...


The problem is that getting nuclear theory would basically require jettisoning anything the Writ has to say about how the universe works. Which is a problem when the Writ itself is still generally unquestioned.

Then you have to explain where the theory even came from. Which is an even bigger problem. Steam engines at least can be (and has been) explained as a logical extension of Safeholdian plumbing technology combined with steam cookers handed down from the Angels themselves.

Also, it seems to me that materials like Pitchblende would be one of those "Anathemas" like white phosphorus that the Writ would warn against, with the result radiation poisoning being explained as a "Curse". And you want to use this stuff to make a bomb that will spread this "curse" far and wide (aka fallout)? I think even the most innovation mad Charisian would balk at that one.
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:40 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2542
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

A-a-a, to Shan-Wei it all. I really tried to resist the desire to draw "King Haarald", but it's simply impossible for me. :) So i would spend at least a few hours in Paint to do this (and with my "Protectore Satida"-class cruiser still unfinished! :D ).

May i at least assume that her hull is heavy tumblehome? I really afraid that so many 203-mm guns make her unstable, if they would be placed high enough to work in heavy seas. The heavy tumblehome form would make it possible to reduce the top weight, and gave a casemated guns better fire arcs.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by 6L6   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:58 pm

6L6
Commander

Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:37 pm
Location: Sourthern Md. USA

Dilandu how about showing us your drawing.
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:00 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2542
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

6L6 wrote:Dilandu how about showing us your drawing.


Er, i didn't even start KH.

My album, if you mean it:

http://dilandu.deviantart.com/
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by Karjala   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:23 pm

Karjala
Midshipman

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:10 pm

The colonists selected for Safehold were what proportion of the total human population? I don't recall that we know what selection criteria were used but we can take it as given that the colonists were the 'best and brightest' cross section of humanity. While we can have a discussion of the role genetics and environment play in human development, I see a big part of this story is what happens when the incredible potential of that population is allowed to be realized.

Karjala
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:09 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2542
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

Karjala wrote:The colonists selected for Safehold were what proportion of the total human population? I don't recall that we know what selection criteria were used but we can take it as given that the colonists were the 'best and brightest' cross section of humanity. While we can have a discussion of the role genetics and environment play in human development, I see a big part of this story is what happens when the incredible potential of that population is allowed to be realized.

Karjala


What potential? The current population is roughly the 29th generation since colonization.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by Karjala   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:07 pm

Karjala
Midshipman

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:10 pm

What potential? The current population is roughly the 29th generation since colonization.[/quote]

I am assuming, of course, a genetic component to the human characteristics that make for the successful development of new technologies. The population that made up the colonists would have been selected based on success of some kind in a world that was under incredible stress. We can assume that genetic weaknesses would have been eliminated but that diversity was important. And remember, Langhorne was not the person making the selection. The people of the last 29 generations have been working to settle the world and competing in many ways.

In addition, we have seen many people and specifically not only the elite, who have been extremely capable all by themselves.

I argue that, in the Safehold world, that the average person is not only smart, but has other characteristics that allows that person to be extremely capable.

Karjala
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:41 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

Karjala wrote:
I am assuming, of course, a genetic component to the human characteristics that make for the successful development of new technologies. The population that made up the colonists would have been selected based on success of some kind in a world that was under incredible stress. We can assume that genetic weaknesses would have been eliminated but that diversity was important. And remember, Langhorne was not the person making the selection. The people of the last 29 generations have been working to settle the world and competing in many ways.

In addition, we have seen many people and specifically not only the elite, who have been extremely capable all by themselves.

I argue that, in the Safehold world, that the average person is not only smart, but has other characteristics that allows that person to be extremely capable.

Karjala


Welcome aboard, Karjala. Nice post here.

I tend to agree with the logic. I would caution that Safehold society might pose selection criteria that selects for specific sorts of intelligence that doesn't lend itself to innovation. I can't think of how but the possibility exists.
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:48 am

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2542
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

Well, we didn't know anything about the genetic representation of initial colonists. They, probably, were selected to avoid as much known to the Terran Federation genetic flaws and diseases as possible. But how much part of all genetic diversity of the human race they represented - we simply didn't know.

It is possible, that some kind of eugenic programm were included in initial colonization plan, to make sure that the diversity would be sufficient and the genetic flaws would be eliminated. More, it is possible that by carefully applied scientifical eugenic it would be possible to raise the "average" parameters of the human race in therms of intellectual and physical development.

But we simply didn't know enought.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Hypothetical match up KH vs Dreadnought
Post by Karjala   » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:35 am

Karjala
Midshipman

Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:10 pm

My core point is that we've been invited into a world where the capabilities and constraints are defined by the author. In general, this is a world where the physical constraints of this world are our constraints, so a ship design has to make physical sense. But if the tempo and development are fast, I will find reasons they can make sense, so I will see strong desire not to be destroyed as reasons for everyone working hard, but if we need a boost in capacity why not assume a more capable people? I can rationalize that assumption and find evidence in the books.

The Charisian navy has had some close calls. I've assumed that that is the main driver on the part of the Charisian leadership for the building of the King Harald class. Merlin would go along since that fits with his strategic vision. This last, of course, I make up out of smoke. I haven't read the book(s) so recently, or so closely perhaps, to say whether there's any direct evidence for that statement about Merlin. :D But I know there are people who have read the books that closely!

Karjala
Top

Return to Safehold