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Honorverse ramblings and musings

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:02 am

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cthia wrote:May be I'm just missing something. Tester knows that I didn't formally enroll in the "New Manty Ships" thread. But I did crypt the course. :D Though I dropped it before the term ended. :(

So thanks for entertaining my notion. However, what I initially proposed seems doable with the current Apollo configuration. If not, a new variant of Apollo is a Bolthole's throw out of off the shelf parts.

In the final Battle of Manticore, Honor used the long reach of Apollo to destroy Chin's Second Fleet, then fired sixty Apollo missiles at Tourville's Fifth. Both attacks were from impossibly long ranges that employed a ballistic component. IIRC, Honor fired out of the RZ?

At any rate, with potential like that of Apollo, what's the difference of firing the missiles immediately versus deploying shoals of them at a strategic location, then activating them later on in an engagement to be fired then? With that tactic, a single ship can potentially mousetrap. The longbow of Apollo can be used in so many ways. I tink I taw textev stating that Honor and, I think Alice, Truman were still investigating the implications and possibilities of Apollo.

I wouldn't be surprised if my little trick isn't already tucked up Honor's sleeve and she just hasn't pulled it yet.

Or perhaps it'll be used by Gold Peak in one of her dustups where the gloves come off and mayhem comes from up her sleeves.

I just get the impression, from textev, that the ability of Apollo will be limited only by one's imagination, for awhile. From what I read, even RMN officers continue to be amazed by Apollo. When Honor came through the junction, cavalry bugle blowing, I remember someone saying "what just happened?" And "I don't blame the Peeps for 'wedge striking'."

Paraphrased for effect.


.

Yes, the concept is doable. And as I pointed out, it has already been done. That is exactly what Admiral Henke did against Crandall.

As others have pointed out, there usually isn't much point in doing it, though, unless you have ammo ships you can deploy them from. First, you have to know exactly where the enemy will be. If you are simply depleting your own magazines, you lose a lot of your potential useful engagement time. Second, you have to be able to maneuver into a position where the enemy is in range of the deployed pods AND you are in control range of both the pods and the entire flight path of the missiles. That's a bit tricky.

Usually there's no point in doing this--if you can control that many missiles, you might just as well deploy them when from your podlayers when you actually need them. But it is possible, and it has been done. Sorry, not a new idea. :)
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:59 am

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:
I see your point but that just requires an adjustment of the tactic. As I recall, in the "Battle of Manticore" McKeon was only firing a single missile at a time which was wreaking havoc. Perhaps dropping shoals of pods is too ambitious, but certainly clumps of say sixty missiles total is even better. An SD(P) could theoretically litter them SOBs all over the quadrant. Smaller numbers would also be less detectable.


:?

McKeon was firing Apollo missiles, which come for a pod in groups of nine. He was firing at a single ship at a time, but Apollo can't be fired as single missiles.

You may be confusing things with Second Hancock where Alice Truman fires single ghost rider missiles from Minotaur to support her LAC squadrons.

I think you're right Harold, that I've confused the two. I yield the point to you, with the understanding that I haven't had a chance to turn the textev rolodex. In other words, I reserve the right to recall you to the stand. :D

No, but really, thanks. Also I defer to all your better judgment regarding using Apollo as long-ranged-steroidal-smart-mines. I'm getting better at it. Crypting (cripping) Skimper's course paid dividends. Whodathot?!

Actually, I liked that course.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:45 am

cthia
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Just a silly little nitpick. With all of the powerful ship names — Triumph, Bismarck, Warlord, Fearless, Tiger, Lion, et cetera, how did a CLAC end up with a name like Mermaid? What the h-e-double hockey sticks is a mermaid doing in the heat of battle? She could get fried.

Ensigns:
"What ship are you assigned to?"

"FEARLESS!"

"HAMMERSTRIKE!

"WRAITH!

"TRIUMPHANT!

"OLYMPUS!"

"HERO!"

"PIRANHA!"

"INDEFATIGABLE!"

"m-m-mermaid."

" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Bill Woods   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:27 pm

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cthia wrote:Just a silly little nitpick. With all of the powerful ship names — Triumph, Bismarck, Warlord, Fearless, Tiger, Lion, et cetera, how did a CLAC end up with a name like Mermaid? What the h-e-double hockey sticks is a mermaid doing in the heat of battle? She could get fried.

Ensigns:
"What ship are you assigned to?"

"FEARLESS!"

"HAMMERSTRIKE!

"WRAITH!

"TRIUMPHANT!

"OLYMPUS!"

"HERO!"

"PIRANHA!"

"INDEFATIGABLE!"

"m-m-mermaid."

" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:"
In the middle of a big build-up, people can get a little desperate.
Submarines [in WW2 were] named for fish or "Denizens of the Deep." At the peak of the shipbuilding program, the navy had around 500 submarines afloat, a-building, or a-planning, and that's a lot of fish. I can testify. There are nowhere nearly as many fish as you may think there are. There are even fewer fish names than the average citizen-sailor can (a) pronounce, (b) spell, or (c) even recognize as belonging to a fish. The reasonable names like TROUT, BASS, SALMON, and SHARK were used up long before I appeared.
It takes some stretching to hook other than most common fish names to submarines and have anyone know you are naming them after fish.
We fudged a little and came around twice. There is a USS SHARK; there is also USS TIBURON, which is shark in Spanish. There was the gallant WAHOO and the USS ONO - the same fish. There was the JACK, the AMBERJACK, and the ULUA - same fish....the CHUB and the HARDHEAD (both minnows - but we couldn't name a fighting fish the USS MINNOW!!)
http://www.usschivo.org/cfish.html
----
Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:33 pm

SWM
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Posts: 5928
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Location: U.S. east coast

cthia wrote:Just a silly little nitpick. With all of the powerful ship names — Triumph, Bismarck, Warlord, Fearless, Tiger, Lion, et cetera, how did a CLAC end up with a name like Mermaid? What the h-e-double hockey sticks is a mermaid doing in the heat of battle? She could get fried.

Ensigns:
"What ship are you assigned to?"

"FEARLESS!"

"HAMMERSTRIKE!

"WRAITH!

"TRIUMPHANT!

"OLYMPUS!"

"HERO!"

"PIRANHA!"

"INDEFATIGABLE!"

"m-m-mermaid."

" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:"

The podnaughts are named after mythological creatures. Mermaid fits that theme.

And not all mermaid stories are hearts and flowers. :) Thessalonike would stir up storms to destroy ships if they displeased her (by saying the wrong thing). Mermaids can be just as fierce as their land-dwelling cousins.
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..?
Post by kzt   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:25 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
kzt wrote:8th fleet engaging 2nd used Hermes.


They weren't controlling missiles through the Hermes.

Yes they were. That was the reason for the tiny salvo size.

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/159/0
" The ranges at which Honor fired in the Battle of Manticore -- up to eight light-minutes against Tourville and 75,000,000 km against Chin -- were both outside the maximum reception range Haven's intelligence types had assumed the control birds would possess. In fact, in Tourville's case, the range was outside Apollo's effective reception range; Honor used a Hermes buoy, with its much greater reception range, and the inner-system FTL recon platforms, to coordinate the "demonstration attack" on Second Fleet. In many respects, that attack was essentially a bluff, although I deliberately didn't say so in the book, since at the moment I'm rather looking forward to allowing the reader to fully appreciate Tourville's reaction when he finds out that it was in a later scene. Honor didn't begin to have the available bandwidth to coordinate full-scale missile attacks at that range, so she deliberately restricted her "demonstration" to a number of missiles she did have the bandwidth to control through her jury rigged telemetry set up."
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..?
Post by Chyort   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:20 pm

Chyort
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:32 pm

kzt wrote:Yes they were. That was the reason for the tiny salvo size.

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/159/0


Ah, intresting... I remember it was a bluff but i never thought it involved the hermes buoy.
Thanks for the link.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Vince   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:22 pm

Vince
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1574
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:43 pm

cthia wrote:I just don't think Apollo has reached his peak. There are still yet undiscovered ways he can be used. Apollo hasn't even come close to shooting his wad yet. Unless the SLN find ways to make him impotent.

When will Apollo peak?

The above unfortunately induced R or NC-17 images in the mind of the reader of the post. :lol:
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by roseandheather   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:53 pm

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Posts: 2056
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Vince wrote:
cthia wrote:I just don't think Apollo has reached his peak. There are still yet undiscovered ways he can be used. Apollo hasn't even come close to shooting his wad yet. Unless the SLN find ways to make him impotent.

When will Apollo peak?

The above unfortunately induced R or NC-17 images in the mind of the reader of the post. :lol:


I wouldn't take any bets that it wasn't on purpose. :roll: :lol:
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:09 pm

cthia
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Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Vince wrote:
cthia wrote:I just don't think Apollo has reached his peak. There are still yet undiscovered ways he can be used. Apollo hasn't even come close to shooting his wad yet. Unless the SLN find ways to make him impotent.

When will Apollo peak?

The above unfortunately induced R or NC-17 images in the mind of the reader of the post. :lol:

roseandheather wrote:
I wouldn't take any bets that it wasn't on purpose. :roll: :lol:


Well w-what are you trying to say? hmmm

Let me think on it awhile.
It's a job for penile.
If I think to reconcile
Then, I can make a child.
Maybe one or two or three,
If I find a her or she.

Y'all got me pegged all wrong. I'm as pure as the driven snow. Don't understand that phrase though, as the snow has been taken out for a drive. Oftentimes, it's driven quite hard.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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