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New Manty ship ideas.

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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by kzt   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:16 pm

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Which ones are you talking about?
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:31 pm

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kzt wrote:Which ones are you talking about?

I'm not sure, kzt. I know there are BBs and BCs. And I think the pod layers started with one of these designs. And I think I remember reading where one of the designs no longer had a place in Navies and thought that RMN revised the role with pod layers?

What class ship was it that gave the RHN a difficult time identifying? It was always something like...'whatever these big things here are.'

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by kzt   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:38 pm

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The RMN hasn't had any BBs since 1868, so I really don't think I can attempt to answer that.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:44 pm

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kzt wrote:The RMN hasn't had any BBs since 1868, so I really don't think I can attempt to answer that.

What ship type was abnormally large by other Navy standards?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by wholf359   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:50 pm

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I think cthia is talking about the new Nike BC(L) which is nearing the tonnage of the old BB from the first war.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Brigade XO   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:11 pm

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I think he is talking about the Peep BBs that had primarily been used as intimidation for pacification of captured systems before the war with Manticore. Lots of really big ships with a lot of fire-power but still significantly below the size of the then Dreadnought type ships. They were primarily defensive in intent, at least from the standpoint of convincing the captured system that there was NOTHING they could do to hurt the BB and it could just sit in system and pound everything flat for as long as it took to convince the population that resistance is futile.
They were a compromise. Not agile like a BC but would require a lot more than a few DDs and a couple of CAs to actually threaten to retake a captured system from whatever of it’s navy survived or what people on the surface or with in-system only capability would be able to seriously hurt.
The Peeps used them in various attacks because they didn’t have enough Dreadnaughts or SD. Note that the Peeps did NOT build more of them to replace what they lost.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by SWM   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:51 pm

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cthia wrote:
kzt wrote:Which ones are you talking about?

I'm not sure, kzt. I know there are BBs and BCs. And I think the pod layers started with one of these designs. And I think I remember reading where one of the designs no longer had a place in Navies and thought that RMN revised the role with pod layers?

What class ship was it that gave the RHN a difficult time identifying? It was always something like...'whatever these big things here are.'

Pod layers did not start with either BBs or BCs. They started with superdreadnoughts. Later they briefly experimented with pod-battlecruisers, but have given up on that idea. They have not built battleships in a very long time, as kzt noted. When King Roger started the naval buildup, he quickly decided that battleships and even dreadnoughts were too small, and started exclusively building superdreadnoughts as soon as they had enough construction experience. Now, unless there is another paradigm change, superdreadnoughts themselves have been replaced by podnoughts.

The design you are probably thinking of that Haven misidentified a few times is the BC(L) (specifically, the current Nike class), which is several times larger than previous battlecruisers and is almost as big as a battleship.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by 61Cygni   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:56 pm

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cthia wrote:Please forgive me guys, but I have a question, and I know for sure this is the right place. I've been trying to determine what prompted the RMN to build those big-assed BBs. And is it true that the designs came from the SLN?


I think you mean the Nike BC(L). I believe those came about because the RMN wanted a BC that could keep its role in the new MDM environment--namely, destroying heavy cruisers also armed with MDMs. The traditional BC size was no longer up to the task, so the RMN just supersized them. It's made clear that they are NOT wallers. While it's true that they could easily wipe out current SLN old-style SDs, they can't do that agsinst new-gen podlayers with MDMs.
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:22 pm

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wholf359 wrote:I think cthia is talking about the new Nike BC(L) which is nearing the tonnage of the old BB from the first war.
Or even possibly the Agamemnon-class BC(P) (1.75 mtons) which, while noticably smaller than the Nike-class BC(L) (2.52 mtons), is quite a bit larger than previous battlecruiser designs (which ranged around .77 - .93 mtons)

But despite recognizing them as much larger that the BCs they were used to seeing I doubt they were confused with a BB (battlehsip) which could be around 4.49 mtons; still almost twice the size of Nike.

Ok, go back a few hundred years and maybe BBs were that small; but I don't think the RHN thought Manticore was sending museum pieces along on system raids :D
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Re: New Manty ship ideas.
Post by Bill Woods   » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:06 pm

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SWM wrote:Pod layers did not start with either BBs or BCs. They started with superdreadnoughts. Later they briefly experimented with pod-battlecruisers, but have given up on that idea. They have not built battleships in a very long time, as kzt noted. When King Roger started the naval buildup, he quickly decided that battleships and even dreadnoughts were too small, and started exclusively building superdreadnoughts as soon as they had enough construction experience. Now, unless there is another paradigm change, superdreadnoughts themselves have been replaced by podnoughts.

Is armor still an important feature for capital ships? It seems like the current paradigm is podlaying ships for offense, surrounded by a cloud of LACs for defense. In an age of long-range missiles with real-time fire control, the whole 2-D 'wall of battle' thing has been replaced by a 3-D formation.

Personally, I'd like to resurrect the term 'battleship' for capital ships. 'Dreadnought' just means 'superbattleship', and 'superdreadnought' means 'superduperbattleship'. ... And 'podnought' means 'having no pods'.:D It's time for a reset.
----
Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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