Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Killer Terminii?

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:39 am

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6048
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

SWM wrote:
Grashtel wrote:TheMonster wrote>>If you're going to displace the hyper drive from dead center, it makes sense to do so "downward" so that it creates a field covering your small craft moving in and out of the boat bay.<<


Why? Attempting to deploy small craft while transitioning into/out of hyper or between bands strikes me as an exceedingly bad idea (for the small craft at least) and when not doing so there is no need for them to be inside the hyper generator's field as its only needed for transitions.

I believe the idea was to put the hyperdrive there in new designs (along with extra space around them) so that when the streak drive was developed it would be easy to retrofit the drive into the space without cutting through armor.

Sure, the placement above the boat bay (were it's presumably easier to access for replacement) makes a certain degree of sense. (Displacing it off centerline makes it somewhat more vulnerable to battle damage, but probably not excessively so)

It was his further thought, that that would let it better cover small craft moving in and out, that really didn't make much sense.


For one thing, as Grashtel said, you shouldn't be conducting boat ops when entering hyper. For another if it can reach out 5+ km it hardly matters, in terms of reach, where it is within the roughly 200m height of an SD.
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by TheMonster   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:04 am

TheMonster
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1168
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:22 am

Jonathan_S wrote:For one thing, as Grashtel said, you shouldn't be conducting boat ops when entering hyper.
You also shouldn't stay in the same hyper sub-band and get your ship blown away by an enemy who just showed up, just because a pinnace hasn't docked yet. Sometimes you have to decide which thing you shouldn't do is the least bad.
For another if it can reach out 5+ km it hardly matters, in terms of reach, where it is within the roughly 200m height of an SD.
Is there textev of hyper fields extending past 5 km?

And if hyper fields do really extend that far, then what's the problem with having small craft near, but not in, the boat bays while transitioning from n-space to hyper or between hyper sub-bands?
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:55 pm

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6048
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

TheMonster wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:For another if it can reach out 5+ km it hardly matters, in terms of reach, where it is within the roughly 200m height of an SD.
Is there textev of hyper fields extending past 5 km?

And if hyper fields do really extend that far, then what's the problem with having small craft near, but not in, the boat bays while transitioning from n-space to hyper or between hyper sub-bands?
Yep, I mentioned in in a post upthread (from last night); it was way back in Honor of the Queen when the Peep ships were shuttling Masadan LACs.

It said that, redlined, the BC and DD could extend their hyper fields to 6 km out. :o


I agree if you get surprised while conducting small boat ops in a rift in hyper, then it's better to jump now and recover the boats in the next hyper band. But that's an emergency measure.

Much like the emergency measure RFC mentioned a while back of LACs being able to tractor themselves several deep to the SD(P)s they'd been screening in order to escape during a raid gone bad; when it's too dangerous for their CLACs to reenter the system and pick them up.
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by TheMonster   » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:47 pm

TheMonster
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1168
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:22 am

Jonathan_S wrote:It said that, redlined, the BC and DD could extend their hyper fields to 6 km out. :o
But that's not the normal operation mode of the hyper generator, and we don't know if a Streak Drive's hyper field can be extended that far. It may be that one of the side-effects of its design is some limitation on field extent not present in conventional designs.
I agree if you get surprised while conducting small boat ops in a rift in hyper, then it's better to jump now and recover the boats in the next hyper band. But that's an emergency measure.

Much like the emergency measure RFC mentioned a while back of LACs being able to tractor themselves several deep to the SD(P)s they'd been screening in order to escape during a raid gone bad; when it's too dangerous for their CLACs to reenter the system and pick them up.
Yes, but taking the potential for such emergencies in account when designing the ships is a good idea. So locating your hyper generator just above the boat bays (one place you can tractor those LACs without blocking the gear that covers the sides, ends, and top of the SD) really does make sense.

No, you don't want to do these things unless you have to do them, but that's when you want to be able to do them. I'm not saying you plan to do this under normal circumstances; I'm saying you design in the capability to do it in extreme circumstances. And then you probably want to drill for it by having the LAC crews practice getting in position without actually activating the hyper drive on the SD(P). If you need to do it, you need to be able to do it in a hurry.
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by SYED   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:51 am

SYED
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1345
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:03 pm

I was just thinking about about where the felix junction might lead to. I remember the fact they were involved in silasia at some point, they believed mesa was targetinf theur shipping. So I wonder if the alignment was attempting to ensure that the region was kept pliable, as the felix terminii leads to here.
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by Cheopis   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:58 am

Cheopis
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1633
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:04 am

SWM wrote:There's no reason to believe that the previously known "killer terminus" has anything to do with the Alignment. I suppose it might, but nothing in the text suggests it. And if people do start linking the memory of that killer terminus with the Torch terminus, they are more likely to conclude that there is a natural hazard on the far side than to decide it is enemy action.


Maybe The dead end terminus leads to Motie space. Or some other psychologically similar species that might have never developed the technologies required for wormhole transits.

High tech aliens, hmmm. I don't think DW has mentioned any of them. All aliens that have been discovered still alive have been early agricultural or hunter-gatherer levels of tech, I think?
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by SWM   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:49 am

SWM
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5928
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: U.S. east coast

Cheopis wrote:High tech aliens, hmmm. I don't think DW has mentioned any of them. All aliens that have been discovered still alive have been early agricultural or hunter-gatherer levels of tech, I think?

David has mentioned high tech aliens once that I can recall--in a statement that he will not introduce high tech aliens in the Honorverse. :D He wants this series to be about humans.
--------------------------------------------
Librarian: The Original Search Engine
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by crewdude48   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:51 am

crewdude48
Commodore

Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:08 am

SWM wrote:
Cheopis wrote:High tech aliens, hmmm. I don't think DW has mentioned any of them. All aliens that have been discovered still alive have been early agricultural or hunter-gatherer levels of tech, I think?

David has mentioned high tech aliens once that I can recall--in a statement that he will not introduce high tech aliens in the Honorverse. :D He wants this series to be about humans.


I seem to recall somebody in authority mentioning one species of aileans on the far side of the league from Manticore, that have three planets and a hand full of ships mostly purchased from humans. I can't remember exactly where I heard that though.
________________
I'm the Dude...you know, that or His Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:53 am

Brigade XO
Admiral

Posts: 2294
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:31 am
Location: KY

Let me get this straight in my head.
A hyper drive creates a (more or less) symmetrical field.
That field has to enclose the entire ship in order to take the entire ship to into hyper unless you want BAD THINGS to happen to the ship.
Military ships seem to place the hyper drive near the center of the ship for, among other things, protection.
Freighters and transports of various designs (in order to keep the maximum amount of clear & unobstructed hold space) often mount the hyper drive on the “spine” of the ship. That spine is the largest of the structural component sets of the ship that run from the bow to stern, generally following the curve(s) of the hull, which has the greatest strength and would carry (it can be presumed) the majority of the data, power, environmental, and internal transit capacity for the ship and its crew. It may or may not include the crew quarters. Not clear where the bridge of a transport would be located.

So, how big is the hyper space field on a ship? I know, that is going to depend on a lot of things. But, if you have an 8MT freighter, and the hyper drive is spine mounted, there is going to be a lot more empty space (and lack of mass particularly when the ship is loaded”) on the outboard side of they generator than on the side which has the ship’s holds.
Does a hyper drive make a bubble/space that ignores the distribution of mass and physical configuration of the vessel within it when it goes into hyperspace and moves through it?

I suppose that I have ignored this in the past and accepted that it works for either warships or other types of ships without thinking about how it works. There are challanges to the medium you work in.

Lets just say this question comes from practical experience with things moving on water where shape of the hull (and superstructure) plus distribution of weight makes a LOT of difference in what the vessel does.
Top
Re: Killer Terminii?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:06 pm

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6048
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Brigade XO wrote:Let me get this straight in my head.
A hyper drive creates a (more or less) symmetrical field.
That field has to enclose the entire ship in order to take the entire ship to into hyper unless you want BAD THINGS to happen to the ship.
Military ships seem to place the hyper drive near the center of the ship for, among other things, protection.
Freighters and transports of various designs (in order to keep the maximum amount of clear & unobstructed hold space) often mount the hyper drive on the “spine” of the ship. That spine is the largest of the structural component sets of the ship that run from the bow to stern, generally following the curve(s) of the hull, which has the greatest strength and would carry (it can be presumed) the majority of the data, power, environmental, and internal transit capacity for the ship and its crew. It may or may not include the crew quarters. Not clear where the bridge of a transport would be located.

So, how big is the hyper space field on a ship? I know, that is going to depend on a lot of things. But, if you have an 8MT freighter, and the hyper drive is spine mounted, there is going to be a lot more empty space (and lack of mass particularly when the ship is loaded”) on the outboard side of they generator than on the side which has the ship’s holds.
Does a hyper drive make a bubble/space that ignores the distribution of mass and physical configuration of the vessel within it when it goes into hyperspace and moves through it?
I don't think we have many details about these questions. For the most part the mechanics of the field the hyper generators create aren't mentioned in the books because they aren't very reliant to the plot.

We got a little detail of the generators from the breakdown of one in Torch of Freedom. (And a bit more from infodumps here from questions that event triggered). Honor of the Queen told us that a Havenite military hyper generator could be "redlined" to cover an area 6 km beyond the hull of a DD or BC. There have been a few mentions in the books, and more in infodumps, about the length of time it takes to recharge a hyper generator after use, or even to use one that's been held in standby.

But nothing I can recall about how the structure or contents of a ship might affect the field.
Top

Return to Honorverse