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Another question about Schueler

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Another question about Schueler
Post by Julia Minor   » Mon May 25, 2020 1:33 pm

Julia Minor
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:58 pm

Business has been tanking over the past couple months thanks to Covid, so I've been doing some binge-reading at work to stave off boredom. The other day, I was re-reading HFQ and got to the scene where the Circle is discussing the translated diary of Saint Kohdy. Nahrmahn refers to one of Chihiro's supporters finding out that the Fallen were about to strike, and names Schueler as the supporter in question.

For some reason, this got me thinking. We know the Book of Schueler was not part of the original Writ. We also know that the Order of Schueler has been engaged in a certain amount of authority-grabbing over the centuries (such as taking over the Order of Jwo-Jeng). The question: Was Schueler one of the original Archangels, or did he get promoted to that status after tipping off Chihiro?

Post-pocket-nuke, Chihiro would have had to rebuild a command staff. Some of the staff he needed to continue to run Safehold might have "settled" for ordinary promotions (civilian or military), but once it became obvious that the Fallen were still around and seriously ticked off, he was going to need someone he could count on to help lead the battle. He might have been able to name the Angel Whomever as the "Herald of Chihiro, who speaks with My voice", but life and the command structure would be much simpler if that assistant was also an Archangel.

If Schueler hadn't had a major role in the Church pre-nuke, then adding him to the list of Archangels would have been simple -- "God sent the Archangel Schueler to assist in the battle against the Fallen". And, if the last chapter of TFT is a genuine message from Schueler, this could explain why he waited to send it. As a relative newcomer to the Archangels, Schueler could easily have had a "he did WHAT?" moment or 10 once he got fully briefed, and wouldn't have had any support for a coup of his own.
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Re: Another question about Schueler
Post by Louis R   » Wed May 27, 2020 7:00 pm

Louis R
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1175
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:25 pm

Hmmm... your suggestion about why Schueler turned - and why he then waited so long to go public - has merit. Of course, we have to keep in mind that we do _not_ know exactly what his revelation contains, nor what his purpose really is.

TTBOMK, we _don't_ have the original list of Arhangels, and if Schuler wasn't one, and wasn't well-known to the colonists, 'promoting' him wouldn't have been difficult. Even if he was, it would be easy to say that he had concealed his status for whatever reason.

Why turn? I believe that it's been suggested more than once that, whatever he may have thought of Langhorne's and Bedard's plan and ability to carry it off, he could see that the system _Chihiro_ was crafting was bound to come apart at the seams eventually. If, in addition, he had objections to the book Chihiro was crafting in his name, that would have been a further incentive. Any man of reasonable insight would anticipate that eventually such a system _would_ be abused.

That, naturally, begs the question of just how _far_ he turned: is his intention to topple the entire structure, or just to set it back onto a path that would stabilize Langhorne's plan. At this point, I don't think we can answer that, although I will say that if he thought to do the latter he must have been at least as optimistic as the original gang about his ability to reach across time.

As for his timing, as you say, there wouldn't have been any ready support for, and likely little acceptance of, any revelations he made in the aftermath of the War. He would have seen a need to wait until the system was breaking down - and he may well have been aiming for a period what it had in fact collapsed, as best he could guess. He may also have suspected that there was still an underground resistance, taken a guess at how long it would take to manifest openly with some hope of success, and either moved to get his licks in first or set up to appear when the repercussions were likely being felt. And as has been suggested already, he needn't have tried for a fixed timing at all. It wouldn't have been difficult to set up a simple AI to eavesdrop on conversations in his cathedral and determine when it was likely that whatever conditions he was looking for had been satisfied.


Julia Minor wrote:Business has been tanking over the past couple months thanks to Covid, so I've been doing some binge-reading at work to stave off boredom. The other day, I was re-reading HFQ and got to the scene where the Circle is discussing the translated diary of Saint Kohdy. Nahrmahn refers to one of Chihiro's supporters finding out that the Fallen were about to strike, and names Schueler as the supporter in question.

For some reason, this got me thinking. We know the Book of Schueler was not part of the original Writ. We also know that the Order of Schueler has been engaged in a certain amount of authority-grabbing over the centuries (such as taking over the Order of Jwo-Jeng). The question: Was Schueler one of the original Archangels, or did he get promoted to that status after tipping off Chihiro?

Post-pocket-nuke, Chihiro would have had to rebuild a command staff. Some of the staff he needed to continue to run Safehold might have "settled" for ordinary promotions (civilian or military), but once it became obvious that the Fallen were still around and seriously ticked off, he was going to need someone he could count on to help lead the battle. He might have been able to name the Angel Whomever as the "Herald of Chihiro, who speaks with My voice", but life and the command structure would be much simpler if that assistant was also an Archangel.

If Schueler hadn't had a major role in the Church pre-nuke, then adding him to the list of Archangels would have been simple -- "God sent the Archangel Schueler to assist in the battle against the Fallen". And, if the last chapter of TFT is a genuine message from Schueler, this could explain why he waited to send it. As a relative newcomer to the Archangels, Schueler could easily have had a "he did WHAT?" moment or 10 once he got fully briefed, and wouldn't have had any support for a coup of his own.
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Re: Another question about Schueler
Post by Erls   » Sat May 30, 2020 1:57 am

Erls
Commander

Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:09 pm

Here is a thought: Schueler never turned, because he was never Chihiro's to start.

Schueler, upon learning of Langhorne and Bedard's plan, was as horrified as Shan-wei or Kau-yung. But, instead of voicing that objection loudly, he remained quiet. He remained outwardly supportive of the Archangel's, in fact. He went as far as 'discovering' various servants of Shan-wei (who, for whatever reason, were out of tech support and at the end of the rope) and dispatching Seijens to clean up. In other words, he played his role to perfection and earned the undying trust of Chihiro.

Why would he do this? Because when he went to Kau-yung with his deep reservations Kau-yung gave counsel. Perhaps Schueler was even brought into the fold prior to arrival in Safehold, and was a mole inside Langhorne's staff. Schueler, therefore, had his role to play, and that was to fully support Langhorne and work behind the scenes to create another fallback option.

Think of the Saint Zhernow, and the planning there. It was realistic that after 300 years a land like Charis would be far enough from Zion to have begun exhibiting some degree of independent thought. The type of place where the books and writings left behind had a good chance of remaining secret and believed.

Schueler was to create another such option. One that occurred at a much later date. If the end of TFT really is Schueler leaving a surprise, the timing makes sense. It would be 25 to 30 years after Nimue 'wakes' up. Without the war, giving Nimue 25 years or so to make an impression and find fertile soil would allow for her to capitalize on Schueler's message. His message would serve to reinforce all Nimue had been working on, and she could reinforce the message.

So Schueler played his role, knowing what he must do to his friends, because if Kau-yung and Shan-wei failed Nimue would need help in some form.
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