Siddarmark Situation

One thing that I found odd about the Siddarmark situations, is that A. A Charisian agent gave a woman advanced, tailored medical intervention simply so that she could get pregnant, and B. Merlin not only substituted ballistic-resistant attire to various important Charisian figures, he also secretly gave them gave them nanites to keep them healthy--against their knowledge...

...and yet no one thought it was a "good idea" to provide similar protection to multiple Lord Protectors of Siddarmark.

And all it really would have taken was the first one.

As a result, millions are suffering. Plus, Safehold's advance is inevitably going to take longer than it would have. Boggles the mind.

AClone wrote:One thing that I found odd about the Siddarmark situations, is that A. A Charisian agent gave a woman advanced, tailored medical intervention simply so that she could get pregnant, and B. Merlin not only substituted ballistic-resistant attire to various important Charisian figures, he also secretly gave them gave them nanites to keep them healthy--against their knowledge...

...and yet no one thought it was a "good idea" to provide similar protection to multiple Lord Protectors of Siddarmark.

And all it really would have taken was the first one.

As a result, millions are suffering. Plus, Safehold's advance is inevitably going to take longer than it would have. Boggles the mind.

Very good point!
Stohnar was a *friend* as well as an ally they could count on.
So they should have considered that.

thing is I'm against Dilandu's "realpolitik" outlook in fiction and of course in real life, as it ALWAYS degenerates into situations where war and chaos happen.
Strong friendly personal relationships help enormously.
Amity and mutual cooperation are not "weak", all evidence proves "sociopathy" is a bad strategy.
Distrust breeds more distrust.

War and chaos cause much more harm than is realised, if you look at how so many damaged men came back from the insane stupid slaughter of WW1....then the moronic screw ups and atrocities of WW2 etc...
domestic violence, suicide, crime, drug addiction, depression that robs potential...and losing huge numbers of people who'd be great workers, leaders, researchers and just plain decent citizens.

Wars and other major problems set up spirals of ever worsening crap that drags the entire world DOWN.
You can't afford to lose decent folk and decent leaders make colossal differences.
Khrushchev and JFK had their problems and sins, but they had their fill of carnage etc and so worked to avoid a nuclear war...and then...scumbags made sure they lost power...
Now, consider today.
Can you imagine many of the current world leaders actually working with brains and amity to avoid catastrophe, hm?

Garbage like the Vietnam and Iraq wars have shattered stability, trade, societies, made work against OTHER problems near impossible etc.
In Safehold, all the severe hate from such evil as the Inquisition and colossal carnage will cause enormous problems as we see in Siddarmark.

another issue as I've raised before though is:
BOY, aren't all those deaths SOOOOOOOOOOOO coincidental, eh?
Sure, 20 odd years go by and many will die, but...some of 'em are definitely suspicious, like Seamount's.

AClone wrote:One thing that I found odd about the Siddarmark situations, is that A. A Charisian agent gave a woman advanced, tailored medical intervention simply so that she could get pregnant, and B. Merlin not only substituted ballistic-resistant attire to various important Charisian figures, he also secretly gave them gave them nanites to keep them healthy--against their knowledge...

...and yet no one thought it was a "good idea" to provide similar protection to multiple Lord Protectors of Siddarmark.

And all it really would have taken was the first one.

As a result, millions are suffering. Plus, Safehold's advance is inevitably going to take longer than it would have. Boggles the mind.

I actually discussed this point with David over dinner at the NASFIC last July. His take at the time was that they had a perfectly good backup for Stonar, and they didn't want to create suspicion about too many long lived people running around, especially since he was not a member of the IC. As far as "ballistic undies" are concerned, definitely not going to happen outside of the IC - if they ever got used, it would raise too many questions - the one time they did actually function, it almost blew the gaff in Corisande. With members of the IC, you will have the cooperation of the individual in creating a "creative explanation" as to the survival of the individual.

The major problem as I see it is that the IC forgot that they were still fighting the Jihad - the actual fighting against the CoGAmay have stopped, but when they decided on the Nahrman plan, then anyone who gets in the way has to be removed. Someone wants to sabotage the Sidermark RR with substandard material - he has a convenient heart attack. The emperor of South Harchong was to block industrialzation - here's a cerebral haemorrhage in the middle of the night. Individual wants to block the saving of the Central Bank equivalent in Siddermark - have a nice funeral. The number of individuals that would have to be removed is minuscule in comparison to the number who dies during the Jihad itself.

As far as Desnair is concerned, the emperor was backing industrialization (albeit in a half-assed fashion), so he survives, because he is doing what needs to be done.

If you are worried about the industrialists in Morrah? running their robber baron tactics, if you really want to shut them down, have a new seijn appear, informing them that Mother Church as adopting the following guidelines for manufactories, and that if a single child is injured or killed, or a worker is killed due to ignoring those guideline, I will personally send you to Langhorne to explain why you felt the need to ignore them. After the first couple of robber barons get to make their explanations, I suspect the rest would clean things up.

I can't get over the thought that SOMETHING weird happened.

My thought is that the SSK may just have something to do with this. Assuming Schueler did lasso the SSK into his overarching plan after Khody's death, he might have given them some sorts of over ride for Terran Federation computer systems. If so, then Sandaria Ghatfryd had more than enough time to suborn OWL when she was first confined to Nimue's Cave upon learning of Nimue Alban's mission. That means Sandaria could have compromised OWL's reports regarding anything that involves her activities to further Schueler's plan as Sandaria saw it.

I say Sandaria just because I doubt Nynian is a good enough actress to pull off marrying Merlin and conspiring behind his back. If she did do that, then achieving Schueler's goals are not mutually exclusive of achieving Merlin's and the Inner Circle's goals.

With OWL's help the SSK can easily implement Schueler's Plan or more likely hide their involvement in executing that plan for their patron.

Sandaria didn't seem to have the needed acceptance of technology. Also, suborning OWL requires suborning Nahrman in the AI environment, which seems unlikely.

PeterZ wrote:I can't get over the thought that SOMETHING weird happened.

My thought is that the SSK may just have something to do with this. Assuming Schueler did lasso the SSK into his overarching plan after Khody's death, he might have given them some sorts of over ride for Terran Federation computer systems. If so, then Sandaria Ghatfryd had more than enough time to suborn OWL when she was first confined to Nimue's Cave upon learning of Nimue Alban's mission. That means Sandaria could have compromised OWL's reports regarding anything that involves her activities to further Schueler's plan as Sandaria saw it.

I say Sandaria just because I doubt Nynian is a good enough actress to pull off marrying Merlin and conspiring behind his back. If she did do that, then achieving Schueler's goals are not mutually exclusive of achieving Merlin's and the Inner Circle's goals.

With OWL's help the SSK can easily implement Schueler's Plan or more likely hide their involvement in executing that plan for their patron.

phillies wrote:Sandaria didn't seem to have the needed acceptance of technology. Also, suborning OWL requires suborning Nahrman in the AI environment, which seems unlikely.

PeterZ wrote:I can't get over the thought that SOMETHING weird happened.

My thought is that the SSK may just have something to do with this. Assuming Schueler did lasso the SSK into his overarching plan after Khody's death, he might have given them some sorts of over ride for Terran Federation computer systems. If so, then Sandaria Ghatfryd had more than enough time to suborn OWL when she was first confined to Nimue's Cave upon learning of Nimue Alban's mission. That means Sandaria could have compromised OWL's reports regarding anything that involves her activities to further Schueler's plan as Sandaria saw it.

I say Sandaria just because I doubt Nynian is a good enough actress to pull off marrying Merlin and conspiring behind his back. If she did do that, then achieving Schueler's goals are not mutually exclusive of achieving Merlin's and the Inner Circle's goals.

With OWL's help the SSK can easily implement Schueler's Plan or more likely hide their involvement in executing that plan for their patron.

We don't know why Sandaria had problems with the reveal. We only know that she couldn't immediately reconcile what she was told with her beliefs prior to learning the true history. If her understanding involved what was contained in the Testament of Schueler, Merlin's revelations would be shocking.

As for Nahrman, once the over ride was activated, Nahrman's memories might have been altered by OWL. They are quite deeply connected after all.

phillies wrote:Sandaria didn't seem to have the needed acceptance of technology. Also, suborning OWL requires suborning Nahrman in the AI environment, which seems unlikely.

This depend on what level is the supposed sub-routines operates. If the original data is compromised on SNARC's - i.e. they are ordered to edit the footage - then Nahrman would not notice anything until he would run into some heavy contradiction.

phillies wrote:Sandaria didn't seem to have the needed acceptance of technology. Also, suborning OWL requires suborning Nahrman in the AI environment, which seems unlikely.

Dilandu wrote:
This depend on what level is the supposed sub-routines operates. If the original data is compromised on SNARC's - i.e. they are ordered to edit the footage - then Nahrman would not notice anything until he would run into some heavy contradiction.

Unless OWL can create a class knowledge that Nahrman can "not know". Effectively information that he knows is there but cannot acknowledge or use in any way without direct approval from OWL.

PeterZ wrote:I can't get over the thought that SOMETHING weird happened.

My thought is that the SSK may just have something to do with this. Assuming Schueler did lasso the SSK into his overarching plan after Khody's death, he might have given them some sorts of over ride for Terran Federation computer systems. If so, then Sandaria Ghatfryd had more than enough time to suborn OWL when she was first confined to Nimue's Cave upon learning of Nimue Alban's mission. That means Sandaria could have compromised OWL's reports regarding anything that involves her activities to further Schueler's plan as Sandaria saw it.

I say Sandaria just because I doubt Nynian is a good enough actress to pull off marrying Merlin and conspiring behind his back. If she did do that, then achieving Schueler's goals are not mutually exclusive of achieving Merlin's and the Inner Circle's goals.

With OWL's help the SSK can easily implement Schueler's Plan or more likely hide their involvement in executing that plan for their patron.

Leaving aside the fact that putting an override into a military computer as standard is the stupidest idea I ever heard of - you try to make them as UN-hackable as possible, ....

Sandaria, who apparently has never seen a computer in her life, has to employ a device OWL can't detect or a technique the SSK have successfully preserved, without having any need for it, for Hundreds of years. If it's an SSK hack, Nynian has to know about the method. Impossible that the Reverend mother, esp one like Nynian, doesn't know about it, when her current deputy does. So it means Nynian is deceiving and betraying the whole IC including her husband. It also means she went through the whole war without saying to Merlin, 'I know this little trick with Federation military computers. Any chance you could adapt it to hack the Temple?' I just don't think it is compatible with Nynian as portrayed in the past however many books.

So the whole thing sounds deeply unlikely to me.

Not a hack. Schueler provided an access code that superseded Nimue's. Sandaria then coopted OWL to execute the plan Schueler tasked the SSK to perform as she believed it should be. In this scenario Nynian has directed the SSK to be guided by Merlin's Inner Circle. Sandaria disagrees but recognizes Nynian will not be persuaded that the CoGA needs to be much more thoroughly discredited than the IC is willing go. In short, Sandaria believes delaying Schueler's task for any reason is unacceptable.

If the SSK has the true Testimony of Schueler but NOT the visitation imagery, coopting OWL to create that imagery is something I can see her doing.