tlb wrote:tlb wrote:With the incident in the throne run, the nanites had already kicked in, but at a very low level and were keeping the patsy happy and not too sure why he was carrying a briefcase. This is the only such incident of which we are aware, where the nanites were already exerting some control.
Somtaaw wrote:I'm not so sure that was the body-control nanites really. William Henry Tyler was a pharmaceutical representative for the Solarian League, so it's quite probably he was pure civilian. If true, he had no defenses from adjustment, which is a known behavioural and psychological control method. The first 'investigators' thought Tim Meares had also been adjusted as well, but being naval they figured he must have been adjusted months or years previously.
That sense of euphoria, combined with being confused about why he even had the briefcase and then "oh thats right" would go hand in hand with his mind having been adjusted, and a cover story planted on his mind. The nanites were also present, but if Queen Berry had never actually shown up that day, they would never have activated and Mister Tyler would have had to come back, with his 'perfume samples'.
As Jonathan mentioned, even upon direct questioning, the cat responsible for that meeting merely thought he was being slightly suspicious but nothing concrete. Meanwhile, Tim Meares didn't trigger Honor's empathic senses until he went live and that was a glaring tipoff.
The nanites seem to sit and watch, and wait patiently, much like the Silver Bullets. They're either totally passive and watching, or in control and either making you physically do something. Whether it's more active like Tim Meares, William Henry Tyler, or Yves Grosclaude, or more passive like all the Alignment Covert Operatives suddenly dropping dead upon being 'arrested'.
Because I do not see how the nanites can insert a story into the victim's consciousness, I am open to the possibility of a partial adjustment. But consider how much easier an adjustment would be if it was working with low level nanite control. If the nanites respond to stress levels (or key words) to kick in the chemically induced euphoria during the training, then I expect that training to require much less time. I see no obstacle for there to be some intermediate state of low level activity between the nanites operating unnoticed in the background and the nanites taking on total body control.
The arguments that I see against full training, is both Bill Tyler's confusion about the briefcase and resulting induced euphoria and the fact that nanite control was still needed to trigger the aerosol bomb.
We seem to be making the same point here, that the nanites cannot possibly have been inserting a fake story. They're purely able to control body functions whether to make the infected act as an involuntary patsy to kill someone (including suicide) or if they are the same brand killing the infected person directly via organ failure to avoid capture/arrest.
Being adjusted would account for the constant
"wait, why am I even here? Why do I have this case?... oh right, samples" loop his mind seemed to keep making. Even in the text he apparently very nearly forgot why he had the case right in front of the security inspection, which itself should have been reason enough to pull him aside.
Even Honor had
zero warning with Tim Meares, his entering the flag bridge itself triggered no
"hmm that's strange, his mind-glow doesn't taste normal" thoughts. He walks past Simon like he's done countless times in the past, but it was only when he was within arms reach and suddenly reached for the pulser did that sensing of mental panic and alarm happen. If Meares hadn't walked that close to Simon at that specific time, those nanites would have kept waiting, and waiting, until the right set of circumstances arose, and nobody would have ever known until then. If it took days or even weeks, those nanites would have laid low and waited.
Same thing with Mister Tyler, aside from that euphoric sense, which wasn't a glaring tip off to Genghis merely odd. But the moment Tyler saw Berry, Genghis snarled and started to lunge forward to attack, which is a pretty good indicator of when the nanites actually activated.
So Tyler almost had to have been adjusted, that's the only known true 'mind-control' in the galaxy to reader knowledge right now. It's also the reason why all military's have safeguards against it. Even StateSec was clearly having trouble breaking Havenite Navy's own safeguards against adjustment with Parnell, despite having him tucked away on Cerberus for years. They had to resort to straight torture and still couldn't do it, although by that point it seemed to be more of a game for Tresca than a serious attempt to make Parnell 'admit to his crimes', so that may not actually be the best example.
