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Fundamentalism and science

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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by Relax   » Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:06 pm

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[quote="The E"]
Let me stop you right there and ask for a citation. "Atheists believe ... that everything came from nothing"? Where do you get that from?
I, even as an atheist, can't speak for all atheists, but I don't believe that. I believe that our current scientific understanding of the early universe isn't deep enough to make any firm statements about what the universe was like pre-Big Bang,but that's explicitly not a belief that "everything came from nothing" - Rather, it's a shrug, meaning that we don't know now and may not ever know what precisely happened back then.

As for "every order came from chaos": You don't understand what chaos means.
Like, flat out. What you mean by "chaos" is a big tangled heap of randomness,

[quote]
Definition of big bang... everything from nothing which has no mathematical model, but since most Aethists simply refuse to say, universe exists, even they see order, guess you don't. It is a hilarious doctrine by Atheists. Evidence for it? Objects accelerating away from us at light speed, in some cases above light speed, assuming red shift physics outside of near reference works. Background radiation tells us otherwise regarding big bang as one it is far warmer and 2 utterly random.

And no, tornadoes going through junkyards do not create 747's. Pretending "chaos" has a mind of its own creating order is laughably hilarious as there is not a single science explanation for increasing order... so in effect, you are saying Chaos is God which bypasses science? After all science says randomness does not create order. If it did, we would have trillions of intermediate fossils of one animal becoming slowly another animal. But, hey, why bother with basic logic in Geology... it is only science after all.

PS: I had forgotten how archaically stupid this forum's quote function is...
_________
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Relax
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by Joat42   » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:25 pm

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Relax wrote:<trollish post snipped>

Seems you had a meltdown. Perhaps you should come back when you feel better.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by The E   » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:27 am

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Relax wrote:Definition of big bang... everything from nothing which has no mathematical model, but since most Aethists simply refuse to say, universe exists, even they see order, guess you don't. It is a hilarious doctrine by Atheists. Evidence for it? Objects accelerating away from us at light speed, in some cases above light speed, assuming red shift physics outside of near reference works. Background radiation tells us otherwise regarding big bang as one it is far warmer and 2 utterly random.


Please try posting again, I love me some good gibberish.
I asked you to show the evidence that led you to make the statement "Atheists believe everything came from nothing"; "The Hubble constant!" is not even an attempt at an answer, it's a meaningless non sequitur.

And no, tornadoes going through junkyards do not create 747's. Pretending "chaos" has a mind of its own creating order is laughably hilarious as there is not a single science explanation for increasing order... so in effect, you are saying Chaos is God which bypasses science? After all science says randomness does not create order. If it did, we would have trillions of intermediate fossils of one animal becoming slowly another animal. But, hey, why bother with basic logic in Geology... it is only science after all.


You wanna try that again, but without the insane monkey typing your posts?
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by Daryl   » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:11 am

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Not sure where I said that?
I did mean to say that an average 2% rise in temperature doesn't seem much, but what it represents is increased energy in the entire biosphere. This can cause more violent extremes, not just slightly hotter days. How you came up with my denying that heat can be moved around beats me. A classic example is the Gulf Stream that keeps the UK and much of Europe warmer than the equivalent opposite side of the Atlantic Ocean.
Relax wrote:
Daryl wrote:On the other hand I also know that we have to address this problem, because it is serious, and real. Not a blindly fundamentalist view, but after careful consideration of all the research. Much of what you have listed is from fringe sites and has been disproved. It would take much more space than even you used to address this. While at University around 1970 we were already looking at this, and much real research has been done since. The quoted 2% temperature rise seems insignificant, however it is the amount of energy overall in the environment that will lead to problems.

Are you seriously going to play make believe that heat from the tropics is not pushed to the poles and this is actual science? Uh... every single climate scientists disagrees with you...
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by gcomeau   » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:46 pm

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Relax wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
I'm curious. As atheism is defined only by a single proposition... not possessing the belief a deity exists... and it has no doctrines or teachings... how exactly does one adopt "fundamentalist" atheism?


Ah, but Atheism does have doctrines and teachings. Atheists just deny that they do.


So to be clear... you know better than atheists what atheists believe. And since you know better you're going to tell us what we believe. And when we inform you you're wrong you're just going to insist we don't know the content of our own thoughts but YOU do?

Maybe stop and think about that for a second.

It is Atheist base doctrine to refuse to acknowledge they exist as that is one of their fundamental doctrines and beliefs. Atheists pretend there is not an organization which has a book of their teachings... But there is an organization(s) that does.

1) Atheist doctrine: They define what is right/wrong


Ummm... nope.

2) How then can Atheists square creating a society without complete anarchy if everyone is God?


Nobody is God. Not believing God exists is what atheism literally means you doofus.

Tyranny of the 51% majority as proscribed by governmental power.


Now you're just talking politics. Nothing to do with atheism.

3) Leads to, Atheists creating their organization of doctirnal teachings in Government. No such thing as individualism.


You mean the government that is run by a massive majority of the religious in almost every country on earth? How do we pull that one off exactly? Mind control?

4) Therefore Atheists(vast majority of them) always vote to increase government as it makes them feel "safer" of their doctrines. If it feels good do it baby, you only life once.


Wait... so now you're saying "atheism" means "big government"? Are you sure you were not raised entirely on a diet of Fox News broadcasts?

5) If Atheists did not have such core doctrines etc, then they would be all for private education using public tax dollars as the money is for the children. But they don't. Not one single Atheist is for this.


Not ONE SINGLE ATHEIST is for private school? On what planet?

Etc.... I mean this entire rant is unhinged. It's like a bad parody of right wing conservative scare talking points. The atheist big government communists are coming for your children!

ffs...
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:44 am

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There are two possibilities: Either Relax is stupid enough to actually believe the things he posted here, or he is stupid enough to think that trolling people is a useful thing to do.

Either way, his posts are incredibly stupid. Is he gathering the stupid like a katamari of idiocy in the wake of Fly being banned again or what?
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:21 am

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Please don't scare him off as we do need a range of differing opinions. Not as much fun when we all agree on everything. Lost most of our old sparring partners. Gone off to some Alt Right blogs I expect.
I don't think that Relax is stupid, many of his posts in other forums show good logic and attention to detail. My theory is that when it comes to politics many on the right have quite inflexible minds, and literally can't bring themselves to consider other points of view. The whole point of being a conservative is not entertaining new ideas.
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:44 am

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Daryl wrote:Please don't scare him off as we do need a range of differing opinions.


His posts are stupid and I'm not going to pretend they aren't. If he has the mental faculties to make non-stupid posts, please, by all means - I would really like more people who are reasonable, with reasonable positions that I disagree with! Those are fun!

But this stupidity? This ranting about how atheists are all communists? Nah. That, we can do without in my estimation. I mean, if I wanted some of that, I'd just reread some Ringo or Kratman.
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:09 am

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Daryl wrote:I respect cthia, and have enjoyed our chats and jousts over the years, so don't want to pile on to him on this. However, I would like a couple of questions answered.
Throughout mankind's tenure both by oral tradition and later by the written word there have been thousands of deities postulated, and venerated. Even now there are many major religions, most of which have schisms and cults.
How does a religious person know that their particular version is the real deal? Not quite so simple as to say that there are many paths to the truth, as many flatly contradict each other.

How do so many organised religions know just what rituals please their deity, and which enrage them? My thoughts are coloured by vivid 60 year old memories of being severely beaten for the heinious sin of eating meat on a Friday.
Even Friday has history "The name Friday comes from the Old English Frīġedæġ, meaning the "day of Frige", a result of an old convention associating the Germanic goddess Frigg with the Roman goddess Venus, with whom the day is associated in many different cultures." So I was punished as a small child by a Christian monk for the crime of dishonouring a pagan goddess's day?

I am sorry you experienced that.

Your two answers.

1) Faith. My faith is also in the Bible. The main difference of many religions, as far as I am concerned, is the acceptance and belief in Jesus Christ. Many religions do not accept that Jesus is the Son of God. But my religion says:

John 14:16 wrote:Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Which is why when many Christians pray, they close it with "In Jesus name. Amen."

Armed with that knowledge you should be able to understand why religions which do not believe Jesus is the Son of God is a deal breaker for me.

I can certainly understand why a God who sent his only begotten Son to die and suffer for our sins wouldn't want anything to do with someone who doesn't accept the Son.

After all, it is the Holy Trinity ...
The Father. The Son. And the Holy Spirit.

2) Rituals. Some religions still practice rituals which are found in the Old Testament. The Old Testament is for learning. The New Testament is for following.

Jesus marked the beginning of a new age and therefore a New Testament. Or New Covenant. In the Old Testament, before Christ, man always had an excuse. We were able to blame our weaknesses on the flesh. God sent his Son, which is God in the flesh, to live as we do. And to show us that man can keep God's covenants even in the flesh. Jesus is our example. God also says:

Ezekiel 36:27
I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.


All of this was necessary because man was plagued with The Original Sin. We were all descendants of Adam, who had lost the original holiness and justice.

Man is no longer descendant from Adam. But from Jesus.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Fundamentalism and science
Post by n7axw   » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:56 pm

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The E wrote:There are two possibilities: Either Relax is stupid enough to actually believe the things he posted here, or he is stupid enough to think that trolling people is a useful thing to do.

Either way, his posts are incredibly stupid. Is he gathering the stupid like a katamari of idiocy in the wake of Fly being banned again or what?


I think Relax is trolling... You guys do realize that trying to engage his arguments is an exercise in futility, right?

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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