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Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?

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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:38 am

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I can only speak for myself:

I find the Honorverse ship design extremely cool and would have serious problems to accept a design change for a movie.

An important part of this is the form follows function concept which necessitates the drive rings and the hammerheads and of course the wedges. This makes the ships look 'true' which in turn makes the story more believable and thus increases the suspense.

100% contrasting this were the drafts for the ship designs in the scrapped movie. They were nonsensical in conjunction with Honorverse physics, looked 'untrue' und thus underminded the believability and suspense. Ontop of that their looks were so obviously meant to curry favor with people used to Star Wars designs that it was cringeworthy. They made me want to hide under the desk when I saw them.
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by cthia   » Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:12 am

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There is a fine line a production team has to walk. If the intent is a one run production, then adherence to canon is feasible. If it is intended to be a series then allowances must be made to appeal to the masses. The less than tech-savvy, or caring, money-wielding masses. One thing that will totally kill space opera, or any battle, is not being able to readily identify the combatants. Adhering too strictly to canon above all else is a mistake in a movie or tv series. The details can be fleshed out later in appropriate dribs and drabs - if the series gets a nod for a second season. Colors are always effective in accomplishing that. The brain readily assimilates color. Even in a real-life battle on the grid iron, colors must be used to discern between your own team and the enemy. Lacking colors, the old "shirts and skins" is better than nothing.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:46 pm

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Bruno Behrends wrote:I can only speak for myself:

I find the Honorverse ship design extremely cool and would have serious problems to accept a design change for a movie.

An important part of this is the form follows function concept which necessitates the drive rings and the hammerheads and of course the wedges. This makes the ships look 'true' which in turn makes the story more believable and thus increases the suspense.

100% contrasting this were the drafts for the ship designs in the scrapped movie. They were nonsensical in conjunction with Honorverse physics, looked 'untrue' und thus underminded the believability and suspense. Ontop of that their looks were so obviously meant to curry favor with people used to Star Wars designs that it was cringeworthy. They made me want to hide under the desk when I saw them.


The StarvWars ships look like the WWII Japanese battleships with "pagoda" masts, or the French pre-Dreadnought battlships, which one commentator (Drachinifel) has described as "hotels going to war"
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:49 am

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cthia wrote:There is a fine line a production team has to walk. If the intent is a one run production, then adherence to canon is feasible. If it is intended to be a series then allowances must be made to appeal to the masses. The less than tech-savvy, or caring, money-wielding masses. One thing that will totally kill space opera, or any battle, is not being able to readily identify the combatants. Adhering too strictly to canon above all else is a mistake in a movie or tv series. The details can be fleshed out later in appropriate dribs and drabs - if the series gets a nod for a second season. Colors are always effective in accomplishing that. The brain readily assimilates color. Even in a real-life battle on the grid iron, colors must be used to discern between your own team and the enemy. Lacking colors, the old "shirts and skins" is better than nothing.


Yes and no.

A completely different ship design (like for instance cubes vis-a-vis balls to take the example to an extreme) is not needed. No one has ever complained about not being able to keep WWII ships apart or wooden ships of the line so the problem can't really be as big as you make it.

Anyways it doesn't really matter because in the Honorverse we have the big advantage that the ships have wedges. :D :D :D
Just make the wedges somewhatvisible - semi-opaque or so (that would look cool anyway) and give them different colors and the ID-problem is solved.) Same for weapon effects.

Ontop of that the ships can be colored too and the ship details can vary also as long as the basic cylinder and hammerhead shape is being kept.
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by Theemile   » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:42 am

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Bruno Behrends wrote:
cthia wrote:There is a fine line a production team has to walk. If the intent is a one run production, then adherence to canon is feasible. If it is intended to be a series then allowances must be made to appeal to the masses. The less than tech-savvy, or caring, money-wielding masses. One thing that will totally kill space opera, or any battle, is not being able to readily identify the combatants. Adhering too strictly to canon above all else is a mistake in a movie or tv series. The details can be fleshed out later in appropriate dribs and drabs - if the series gets a nod for a second season. Colors are always effective in accomplishing that. The brain readily assimilates color. Even in a real-life battle on the grid iron, colors must be used to discern between your own team and the enemy. Lacking colors, the old "shirts and skins" is better than nothing.


Yes and no.

A completely different ship design (like for instance cubes vis-a-vis balls to take the example to an extreme) is not needed. No one has ever complained about not being able to keep WWII ships apart or wooden ships of the line so the problem can't really be as big as you make it.

Anyways it doesn't really matter because in the Honorverse we have the big advantage that the ships have wedges. :D :D :D
Just make the wedges somewhatvisible - semi-opaque or so (that would look cool anyway) and give them different colors and the ID-problem is solved.) Same for weapon effects.

Ontop of that the ships can be colored too and the ship details can vary also as long as the basic cylinder and hammerhead shape is being kept.



In SITS, RMN ships normally have thin red bands highlighting their weapons decks. Silesian ships have thick green bands covering theirs. Silesian and Havenite ships are more angular, with slab sides forming Octagonal hull shapes, while RMN ships are more rounded - cylinders with flattened sides.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by kzt   » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:43 pm

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It’s a total hull covering that is adjusted as desired. Generally people desire to not be seen in combat, so all the ships are flat black against a black background, covered with an invisible screen that blurs them into invisibly.
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by Theemile   » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:03 pm

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kzt wrote:It’s a total hull covering that is adjusted as desired. Generally people desire to not be seen in combat, so all the ships are flat black against a black background, covered with an invisible screen that blurs them into invisibly.


It's the smart skin, as we've discussed before, it's part of the stealth system and can be changed to show anything.

But, I'm just pointing out that currently, certain navies already have chosen design and coloration cues that make them stand apart.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:54 pm

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kzt wrote:It’s a total hull covering that is adjusted as desired. Generally people desire to not be seen in combat, so all the ships are flat black against a black background, covered with an invisible screen that blurs them into invisibly.


Sure, but like I said, the filming crew's cameras are not limited by in-Universe technology. They can pick out the details otherwise hidden by stealth.
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:35 am

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Perhaps one Navy's hammerhead design can come closer to an actual hammerhead in appearance than in name. Ships of the Honorverse look more like giant phalluses than hammerheads in that regard. Which may not make them appropriate for tv as is.

Cetain elements of storyline itself may have to adopt subtle changes to be appropriate for the big screen as well. Like turnover times. Although I suppose the time it takes warships to reach turnover could be filled with "posturing " . . .

"I'm ... ... going ... to tear ... you ... limb from limb."

Which suggests the slow communication via ftl may not be totally amenable to tv.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Would HV ships need an extreme makeover for a TV series?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:02 pm

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cthia wrote:"I'm ... ... going ... to tear ... you ... limb from limb."

Which suggests the slow communication via ftl may not be totally amenable to tv.


Just don't show them trying to hold a dialogue. I've always found it weird that they'd send sentences and wait 45 minutes for a reply in the books. And it looked like they had the camera on them all the time!

No, if you're not in real-time range, you want to send as much information as you can in your one message. And if you're on real-time range, you have the dreaded "you're on mute" problem :)

But as many of us know with emailing our bosses, you don't want to send TOO much, because you open up for a "tl;dr" symptom. Or they focus on the first paragraph or the last paragraph of your message to the detriment of the rest of what you needed from them.
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