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What's the Point of Raoul?

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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:52 pm

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jtg452 wrote:<snip>
Considering how the MA has been built up as the ultimate boogeyman that has been lurking in the shadows centuries, ferreting them out shouldn't be an easy or quick task. A generation or two is still very fast in the face of how much prep time the MA has had.

This would be true except fot he fact that Albrect decided to advance the final implementation of the master plan to occur during his lifetime, and is offspring are making even bigger mistakes - the attack of Beowulf was an act of revenge for the deaths of their parents - and has provided a strong rallying cry for hunting down the MAlign - when the course of wisdom would have been to stand down for a couple of generations and let things - mellow - perhaps arranging for Manticore and The Andermani tensions to ripen, splitting up the Haven/Manticore alliance (could take centuries, but they already have spent centuries, what's a few more - unless you are hell bent on having it happen during your lifetime) - the Malign is about to discover the meaning of the word hubris.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by saber964   » Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:31 pm

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Kensai wrote:Guys....

Interesting observations and theories. No one know what RFC will do with the characters of Raoul and Kat.... He might not even have a solid plan right now, with how he changed the storyline.

We do know they likely will have roles in future tomes. What roles, we don't know and RFC will tell us when he knows and writes it. :)

I do think there is a possibility that is an outlier- something no one has offered up as an idea for either child.

Service with the Marines or medical fields. Follow in the footsteps of Alfred and or Allison? I mean, both children have been around THEM a lot... and may pick up interest in medical fields.... or either could ask after Granpa's Marine Career and decide he/she/both wanna do *that*

And lets be honest- if either child were to have concerns about being in Honor's shadow, the Corps would cure that. Everyone is Worthless until they get through Boot. And then only semi-worthless.... :)

Kat would have the most trouble in Naval Service as she is female and likely will look a lot like her mom; despite best efforts, expectations will be obnoxiously high (RL history of this, btw, with children of famous officers following footsteps). Raoul with his ability with tree cats, has a lot of possibilities... and in turn, limits BECAUSE of that ability. He may forego anything public and become a Ranger to work MORE with the Treecats....

Katherine... same deal. If she's really bright, Intel or Diplomatic Corps. Medical may be her thing too. Or she may be a tomboy personified and wanna play in the mud. Or even none of it and choose to be a Grayson Woman of Pre-Honor days (doubt that but its an option, albeit super slim.... and slim be on that horse heading out of town).

We don't know where he's gonna go with the characters. Wherever he DOES go, it should be appropriate and be an interesting read.

In any case, I hope RFC gets his writing groove going soon.


FYI Katherine's mom is not Honor but Emily
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:39 am

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Offtrack question. Are Honor and Hamish technically widows?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:25 pm

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cthia wrote:Offtrack question. Are Honor and Hamish technically widows?


I think so.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by Brigade XO   » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:34 pm

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jtg452 wrote:A longer jump wouldn't have a great impact on the cast of characters since practically all of them have received prolong.

Even 40-50 years wouldn't change much other than the Protectorship of Grayson if you are looking at the major players. Many of the Torch cabinet would be gone, too, but I would argue that Torch's government are minor characters in the current overall storyline.

Considering how the MA has been built up as the ultimate boogeyman that has been lurking in the shadows centuries, ferreting them out shouldn't be an easy or quick task. A generation or two is still very fast in the face of how much prep time the MA has had.


There are a couple of things that are going to mitigage against the Alignment being able to crawl back under it's rock pile.
The first one is that to this point the intent and plan was to use proxies of all sorts to shatter the league, criticaly degrade the ability of most capable Navys to be effective and get what amounts to a Civl War going amoung the systems that remain in the League. That isn't quite what happened. Oh, there was a lot of death and destruction but in terms of absolute power avaiable, the GA, it's friendly (by treaty or common design and concern) polities like the Andermand, Erwhon, etc and still the SLN. While the SLN is in no condition to take on- even if it wanted to now- the GA, it is more than able to deal with the majority of single system and probably breakouts of warlordism which will be operating with the same or similar tech levels as the SLN.
Second was that the RF was intended as a rally point for those either existing the League or Indpendents fearful of other threats (including the SL) now that the SLN isn't going to be the 800 lb gorilla enforcer of behavior. That is still going to happen to some extent but the equation has changed and there will be fewer defections from the League. There will also be more things like the GA and variations on what the RF is MARKETING itself to be doing. I use that word intentional because they are going to omit the part about implanting a whole set of changes into the medical, moral and philosophy sections of the various systems to convert them to what could be called (but will never be) Detweilerism. We even saw that one of the initial and already highly prepped systems to be an early RF (not of the original group) joiner because the leader had concerns and reservations and Albrect said "don't push".
Thirdly and probably most importantly is that the entire plan was designed to keep the Alighment compleatly invisible and out of the notice of anybody with it's operatons through moles, proxies and such so that NO ONE outside the organization was to know that it either existed or there was another player in galactic affairs that was puppet mastering things.

I'm sure that the Alignment is going to try to pull the rocks, scum and dead leaves back over itself but there are too many players who know they exist. All of those players also have very good and bloody reasons to want not only a piece of the Alignment but extract so much more than revenge and their enemies end. So at least the top 5 military if not political powers in the known human explored part of the Galaxy (Manticore, Haven, Grayson, The Andermani and, of course, what will shake out as the SL v. II) have their scouts out looking for the Alignment/ The Other Guys or whatever you want to call them and they are seriously motivated to 1st find them and 2nd probably to reduce them to a no longer outgassing ruin wherever they may be found (after extracting what can be had to keep pursue the the next instalment.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by MC1560   » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:17 pm

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cthia wrote:The author's "resistance" to the build-up of storyline and its demands of being advanced. If the author is to deliver to us an enemy who is not simply a cardboard cutout like the SLN, then round one (and possibly more) will go to the MA and the LDs. The GA needs time to find Darius, time to find a way to neutralize MA stealth, time to rebuild the Navies destroyed and time for new characters to grow up and take a bow. The rubber band has been stretching from the author's resistance, and time.
This.

The MA will need a long time to be ready for galactic conquest, especially since their plans have gone so awry as of late.

If they challenged the GA now, I suspect they would get flattened.

So if we are not getting a time jump, then are we ending the series very early?

For that would really suck.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:35 pm

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MC1560 wrote:
cthia wrote:The author's "resistance" to the build-up of storyline and its demands of being advanced. If the author is to deliver to us an enemy who is not simply a cardboard cutout like the SLN, then round one (and possibly more) will go to the MA and the LDs. The GA needs time to find Darius, time to find a way to neutralize MA stealth, time to rebuild the Navies destroyed and time for new characters to grow up and take a bow. The rubber band has been stretching from the author's resistance, and time.
This.

The MA will need a long time to be ready for galactic conquest, especially since their plans have gone so awry as of late.

If they challenged the GA now, I suspect they would get flattened.

So if we are not getting a time jump, then are we ending the series very early?

For that would really suck.


I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Cthia made an incorrect conclusion in the text quoted above. I do agree that we need time for the series to conclude with the quality we've come to expect, but that doesn't imply the delay must be 25 years, which is what is required for the original expectation of Raoul and Katherine to become central characters to be valid.

I think the view points that were expected of them have been replaced by other characters, like Abigail Hearns, Helen Zilwicki, and "Gwen" Archer. So instead of seeing Raoul as Theisman's flag lieutenant, we'll probably see Helen or Gwen as Theisman's staff tactical officer and Commodore Abigail Hearns (is she then called Commodore Hearns or Commodore Owens?) commanding a Cruron.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by Dauntless   » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:34 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
I think the view points that were expected of them have been replaced by other characters, like Abigail Hearns, Helen Zilwicki, and "Gwen" Archer. So instead of seeing Raoul as Theisman's flag lieutenant, we'll probably see Helen or Gwen as Theisman's staff tactical officer and Commodore Abigail Hearns (is she then called Commodore Hearns or Commodore Owens?) commanding a Cruron.


if it is a Grayson sqaudron then probably Owens, if RMN then Hearns unless somehow she becomes the next Steadholder Owens.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by cthia   » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:23 am

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MC1560 wrote:
cthia wrote:The author's "resistance" to the build-up of storyline and its demands of being advanced. If the author is to deliver to us an enemy who is not simply a cardboard cutout like the SLN, then round one (and possibly more) will go to the MA and the LDs. The GA needs time to find Darius, time to find a way to neutralize MA stealth, time to rebuild the Navies destroyed and time for new characters to grow up and take a bow. The rubber band has been stretching from the author's resistance, and time.
This.

The MA will need a long time to be ready for galactic conquest, especially since their plans have gone so awry as of late.

If they challenged the GA now, I suspect they would get flattened.

So if we are not getting a time jump, then are we ending the series very early?

For that would really suck.


ThinksMarkedly wrote:I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Cthia made an incorrect conclusion in the text quoted above. I do agree that we need time for the series to conclude with the quality we've come to expect, but that doesn't imply the delay must be 25 years, which is what is required for the original expectation of Raoul and Katherine to become central characters to be valid.

I think the view points that were expected of them have been replaced by other characters, like Abigail Hearns, Helen Zilwicki, and "Gwen" Archer. So instead of seeing Raoul as Theisman's flag lieutenant, we'll probably see Helen or Gwen as Theisman's staff tactical officer and Commodore Abigail Hearns (is she then called Commodore Hearns or Commodore Owens?) commanding a Cruron.

Somewhere in the middle would be even better. LOL

My niece could have graduated HS an entire four years early, but my sister held her back one year out of her own fear and for sentimental reasons. However, it isn't unheard of for kids to graduate even sooner. Kids with multiple degrees at 12-yrs-old is becoming more commonplace. Raoul is the product of an Alpha. Even though a child inherits the DNA of the father, I doubt Hamish dumbed him down too much. And Raoul can receive Academy training while in HS and even graduate Saganami early? Providence can do the rest. That Demon Murphy can put him in command. Murphy don't care how old you are. LOL

The author gets the final stroke of the pen, jus sayin'.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:14 am

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cthia wrote:Raoul is the product of an Alpha. Even though a child inherits the DNA of the father, I doubt Hamish dumbed him down too much. And Raoul can receive Academy training while in HS and even graduate Saganami early? Providence can do the rest. That Demon Murphy can put him in command. Murphy don't care how old you are. LOL


That's a baseless argument. The two direct ascendants Raoul has in that Alpha line (Honor and Alfred) do not seem to have extraordinary intelligence. Honor had trouble with maths, remember?

They're very good in their own domains and Honor is definitely the best tactician & strategist of her generation, but she didn't graduate early for anything.
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