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What's the Point of Raoul?

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What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by MC1560   » Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:16 pm

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Is he going to be Honor 2.0? How would that go with Honor 1.0 still alive and hinted at returning and saving the day again?
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:19 am

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MC1560 wrote:Is he going to be Honor 2.0? How would that go with Honor 1.0 still alive and hinted at returning and saving the day again?


I think he will not have an important role.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by MC1560   » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:34 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
MC1560 wrote:Is he going to be Honor 2.0? How would that go with Honor 1.0 still alive and hinted at returning and saving the day again?


I think he will not have an important role.
Explain.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:59 am

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MC1560 wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:I think he will not have an important role.
Explain.


The timeline has changed and been brought forward a couple of decades. What David had planned, like having Raoul serving in Adm. Tourville's staff, the man whose actions caused his mother's death, are not likely to happen. The roles that he had planned for Raoul and Katherine are reassigned to other characters, like Abigail Hearns, Helen Zilwicki, Paulo, and others.

Because of this, there's currently no indication that Raoul and Katherine will play any significant role in the uncovering and defeat of the MAlign.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by Donnachaidh   » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:23 am

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While that's what they were setup to be and those roles have been taken by other characters, the series may still jump forward and see them in those roles.

The MAlign took a major hit but they weren't defeated and from what we've seen so far, Operation Houdini was extremely effective and there has been reference to a wormhole (besides Torch) that no ship had successfully transited so after a few attempts they would likely stop trying to transit and not discover Darius that way. From everything that's been shown of the MAlign, it would be entirely possible for them to (in general) kept their heads down and settled for more subtle methods of influencing the reformed Solarian League (and/or its successor states which they're already setup to do through the Renaissance Factor).

They've already work toward their goal for centuries (and that was pre-prolong); working for a few more decades or even centuries (when they have prolong) would be an entirely reasonable thing for them to do. The wildcard would be the anger of the Detweilers.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
The timeline has changed and been brought forward a couple of decades. What David had planned, like having Raoul serving in Adm. Tourville's staff, the man whose actions caused his mother's death, are not likely to happen. The roles that he had planned for Raoul and Katherine are reassigned to other characters, like Abigail Hearns, Helen Zilwicki, Paulo, and others.

Because of this, there's currently no indication that Raoul and Katherine will play any significant role in the uncovering and defeat of the MAlign.
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"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:25 am

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Donnachaidh wrote:While that's what they were setup to be and those roles have been taken by other characters, the series may still jump forward and see them in those roles.


Indeed, David has changed his mind once and may yet again. However, current plans as far as he's confirmed himself in the videos on YouTube are that there will be no big time jump.

The MAlign took a major hit but they weren't defeated and from what we've seen so far, Operation Houdini was extremely effective and there has been reference to a wormhole (besides Torch) that no ship had successfully transited so after a few attempts they would likely stop trying to transit and not discover Darius that way. From everything that's been shown of the MAlign, it would be entirely possible for them to (in general) kept their heads down and settled for more subtle methods of influencing the reformed Solarian League (and/or its successor states which they're already setup to do through the Renaissance Factor).

They've already work toward their goal for centuries (and that was pre-prolong); working for a few more decades or even centuries (when they have prolong) would be an entirely reasonable thing for them to do. The wildcard would be the anger of the Detweilers.


All that is true, but they are not the sole masters of their destinies any more. Once their existence became known, others can now look for them. They can only remain completely hidden if Operation Houdini was completely thorough and they sever ties with the rest of the Galaxy.

Neither of which is true. Houdini, because it was rushed and adapted to the needs, had flaws. We may not have seen them yet and we may never actually see them, but flaws there were. However, given the content of the very next book, I would bet that they will uncover some of those flaws.

And the MAlign will not sever ties completely. The RF trigger has been pulled and the Detweilers will not let the RF evolve without trying to control. Can you imagine this group of control freaks giving up control? They've been in the driver's seat for centuries, they're not going to let go now. That means there will be a trail of information, money, matériel, and people between Darius and the rest of the Galaxy. And a trail can be followed.

Finally, there's the arrogance. They could wait and see if the interest in them wanes down. I don't think they will.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ZVar   » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:11 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:All that is true, but they are not the sole masters of their destinies any more. Once their existence became known, others can now look for them. They can only remain completely hidden if Operation Houdini was completely thorough and they sever ties with the rest of the Galaxy.

Neither of which is true. Houdini, because it was rushed and adapted to the needs, had flaws. We may not have seen them yet and we may never actually see them, but flaws there were. However, given the content of the very next book, I would bet that they will uncover some of those flaws.

And the MAlign will not sever ties completely. The RF trigger has been pulled and the Detweilers will not let the RF evolve without trying to control. Can you imagine this group of control freaks giving up control? They've been in the driver's seat for centuries, they're not going to let go now. That means there will be a trail of information, money, matériel, and people between Darius and the rest of the Galaxy. And a trail can be followed.

Finally, there's the arrogance. They could wait and see if the interest in them wanes down. I don't think they will.


Plus one more issue Weber has touched on that could be a factor. Now that the genocide of the human race isn't some far off concept there are members of the inner circle that are not happy with what the alignment is doing. Maybe not outright defection like Herlander Simoes, but maybe an internal power play to de-throne the Deitweilers. People like Zachariah McBryde and Gail Weiss will not be happy when they learn of all the "terrorist" attacks back on Mesa that killed family and friends.

Yes they have to learn about Mesa, but these are intelligent, motivated individuals. They will find out if there is even a wiff of something not right.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by jtg452   » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:08 pm

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As it stands, he's a toddler at the end of the last book.

How much of an impact he has depends on how big of a time jump occurs between the last book and the next one. A 20 year jump would be meaningless to most of the adult characters since prolong minimizes that amount of time jump, BUT, that would be long enough for Raoul to have graduated the Academy (minimum age for acceptance is 17 and call it a 4 year course of study) and be a LT(jg) or so.

A longer jump would push him higher up the ranks but it would be peace time promotion rate- so you won't see the Captain (senior grade) or Commodore with 20-30 years of service like you did during the Havenite Wars. Attrition and the expansion of the navy had a LOT to do with those that got fast tracked on the command path getting so high, so fast. Lots of 'filling a dead man's shoes' happened. Even Honor had to get jumped a couple of grades at one time on 2 different occasions to get her flag so fast. Don't forget that in the pre-War RMN, a respected 30 or 40 year veteran officer being a cruiser (NOT a battlecruiser) captain wasn't unheard of.

I can see him- and Katherine- being involved in some capacity but, unless we are talking about a jump of 50 years or so, they won't be decision makers.

A 20 year jump? Maybe he's a very junior tactical officer (if he's in the Navy, the Tactical track is the only way he'll go since Tactical is THE command track and look who his parents are) serving on a CL or DD that comes across something. Think Abigail Hearns at Monica.
Last edited by jtg452 on Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:07 am

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jtg452 wrote:A 20 year jump? Maybe he's a very junior tactical officer (if he's in the Navy, the Tactical track is the only way he'll go since Tactical is THE command track and look who his parents are) serving on a CL or DD that comes across something. Think Abigail Hearns at Monica.


A 20-year jump would see him on his snotty cruise. 25 years would give him maybe a position as a flag lieutenant to some high-ranking officer. In other words, the role that Helen Zilwicki has assumed.
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Re: What's the Point of Raoul?
Post by cthia   » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:59 am

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We must not overlook the possibility of Raoul stepping into Honor's political shoes, there on Grayson and in the Star Kingdom. Think of a Katherine Montaigne with dual citizenship and power.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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