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IRS
Post by biochem   » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:04 pm

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The IRS has been extremely problematic lately

1. Obama's minion utilized it to persecute political enemies.

2. There is are serious competence issues

- Example #1 The IRS helpline in notoriously wrong. So when taxpayers call to ask questions about tax laws, they get the wrong answer. No, the IRS doesn't accept "but that's what you told me to do" in an audit.

- Example #2 The IRS refunds are notoriously easy to steal by identity thieves. Billions of dollars are stolen annually.

3. The political appointees at the very top of the agency can be replaced but the vast majority of employees are covered by civil service regulations, which basically means you're lucky if you can fire them for being a serial killer.


A great many of the problems are embedded in the agency culture. Which is the best way to fix the IRS?

1. Clean slate? Close the agency allowing us to lay off everyone. Start up a new agency with the same function but a different name. Requires dealing with the extreme but temporary disruption in tax collection this would cause. Allows new group of hopefully more competent employees with a new work culture and a new agency structure with new rules to prevent persecutions of political opponents.

2. Fix the existing IRS with new rules/procedures to penalize the persecution of political enemies. Spend a lot of $$$$ on training employees and fixing the identity theft problem. Sideline less competent employees into busy work positions that have zero impact on outcomes.


There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods of fixing the problem.
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Re: IRS
Post by Annachie   » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:16 pm

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Just on the help line thing, can you provide links and such. I did a quickish search and all I found was more than 10 years old or from sites trying to sell tax advice. (Ie dubious or out of date sources)

Also, is the cost for seeing a tax accountant tax deductable over there? If so why would you ever do it yourself and ring a help line?
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Re: IRS
Post by biochem   » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:55 pm

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Annachie wrote:Just on the help line thing, can you provide links and such. I did a quickish search and all I found was more than 10 years old or from sites trying to sell tax advice. (Ie dubious or out of date sources)

Also, is the cost for seeing a tax accountant tax deductable over there? If so why would you ever do it yourself and ring a help line?


I saw it on the TV news this year, I don't recall which channel. But problems with the IRS helpline are an annual news story every year about this time (taxes here are due April 15th). I did find a couple of current web articles on it, the majority of articles seem to be devoted to the fact that the helpline is understaffed and don't even answer half the calls.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... iable.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack ... -taxpayer/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-irs-is- ... 1421368001

I assume those attempting to use the IRS helpline are doing so in an attempt to try and save money. Given the taxes and penalties one is subject to for mistakes, whenever we've had a problem TurboTax (TurboTax is a software package to help US taxpayers file their taxes, used by a large % of taxpayers), which we use most years, couldn't answer we have gone to an accountant rather than put ourselves at risk. My understanding (which could be incorrect) is that the IRS helpline is used primarily by low income taxpayers, which if correct means that they are giving lousy answers to those more in need. Nice....

We did at one point get an amazingly scarey and threatening letter from the IRS demanding a huge fine and penalty for unreported income. Fortunately, we didn't have to pay since it was their error (they counted something twice) not ours. It took the accountant a very short time to deal with it and clear it up. Who knows how it would have turned out had we tried to go solo.
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Re: IRS
Post by Daryl   » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:32 am

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You do realize that the NSA has probably flagged negative comments about the IRS & the men in black will be visiting soon?

A little more seriously, in Australia the ATO is actually helpful. Being a landlord I get invited to evening seminars where the audience is fed and given advice on what you can claim. Generally I discover legitimate items to claim that I wouldn't have thought of myself. The help lines vary depending on who you get but the web pages are useful.


I've had two full tax audits over the years and have been given the green light each time. My financial affairs are more complex than the average, and the average accountant always seemed to depend on me to do most of it, so I've done all of it for years now.
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Re: IRS
Post by Annachie   » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:53 am

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Personally, I've thought that help lines in general have gone to dogs over the last 10 or 20 years or so. After all, they are an expense to be minimized not a revenue stream to be encouraged. Customer service is a dirty word. So I wonder how much of the problem is that general decline.
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Re: IRS
Post by The E   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:07 am

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And on the other side of the debate, here's John Oliver's take:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn_Zln_4pA8
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Re: IRS
Post by wastedfly   » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:17 pm

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Instead of wasting money on crappy turbo tax software and accountants that are often WRONG, just fill out the normal forms and if you are REALLY questioning, add a few extra bucks to your check when sending it in. You will save a huge amount of $$$ and TIME.

But, you do have to read.

Anyone saying the tax forms are difficult, needs some air pumped into their skulls. They are absurdly easy to read assuming you can actually follow the very simple directions. No, I am not talking the simplistic 1040EZ. That form even mentally disabled can fill out.
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Re: IRS
Post by Spacekiwi   » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:45 am

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So glad I live in NZ. 20 questions (approx), regarding confirmation that all my jobs were listed and correct, and that I was still in my right tax band, and the govt did the rest..... :) Got a nice rebate this year too.....





wastedfly wrote:Instead of wasting money on crappy turbo tax software and accountants that are often WRONG, just fill out the normal forms and if you are REALLY questioning, add a few extra bucks to your check when sending it in. You will save a huge amount of $$$ and TIME.

But, you do have to read.

Anyone saying the tax forms are difficult, needs some air pumped into their skulls. They are absurdly easy to read assuming you can actually follow the very simple directions. No, I am not talking the simplistic 1040EZ. That form even mentally disabled can fill out.
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Re: IRS
Post by imperatorzor   » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:30 pm

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A good piece on the subject

Zor
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Re: IRS
Post by biochem   » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:51 am

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John Oliver has a point that the IRS does need more money to function well. However they were functioning poorly BEFORE the Republicans cut their budget. And with all the civil service protections in place etc, the only power the Republicans had to express their justified displeasure at the Democratic led IRS targeting Republican 527s (for those outside the US, 527s are a big source of campaign spending) was to cut the IRS's budget. Frankly a few people should have gone to jail.

So before I'd restore their funding (and to be honest I'd not only restore it, I'd increase it) I want genuine reform. I swing back and forth between reform it as it stands and clean slate. The big disadvantage of clean slate is the profound disruption it would cause, although that would be temporary. So in a perfect world I'd prefer reform in place. However, the past performance of the Federal government on reforming departments has been poor to say the least. So the clean slate approach might be the only thing that would actually work.
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