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Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?

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Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by WeberFan   » Sun May 02, 2021 5:35 pm

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An interesting thought just came to me as I was rereading (for what seems to be the hundredth time) the Safehold series:

Textev from HFQ: "Anyway, the references in the Writ - and in Kohdy's diary - to 'fastnesses in the Mountains of Desolation' suggest the Fallen had been preparing for some time. Once the fighting began, however, any small industrial modules they'd managed to hide away in the mountains were enormously outclassed, because Hamilcar hadn't been disposed of."


Later, in TFT, we have the Charisians supporting the development of the provinces in West Haven - including the Desolation Mountains.

Could the early reference to the use of the Desolation Mountains as a Fallen base of operations in HFQ be a Chekhov's gun? With all the new development going in in West Haven - with Charisian help and funding - might we see the discovery of a heretofore undiscovered Fallen citadel?
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by n7axw   » Sun May 02, 2021 9:33 pm

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WeberFan wrote:An interesting thought just came to me as I was rereading (for what seems to be the hundredth time) the Safehold series:

Textev from HFQ: "Anyway, the references in the Writ - and in Kohdy's diary - to 'fastnesses in the Mountains of Desolation' suggest the Fallen had been preparing for some time. Once the fighting began, however, any small industrial modules they'd managed to hide away in the mountains were enormously outclassed, because Hamilcar hadn't been disposed of."


Later, in TFT, we have the Charisians supporting the development of the provinces in West Haven - including the Desolation Mountains.

Could the early reference to the use of the Desolation Mountains as a Fallen base of operations in HFQ be a Chekhov's gun? With all the new development going in in West Haven - with Charisian help and funding - might we see the discovery of a heretofore undiscovered Fallen citadel?


Could well be... I've always thought that the Seijin Khody theme was a hanging thread without clear resolution. This would one among several unanswered questions...

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Mon May 03, 2021 1:23 am

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WeberFan wrote:An interesting thought just came to me as I was rereading (for what seems to be the hundredth time) the Safehold series:

Textev from HFQ: "Anyway, the references in the Writ - and in Kohdy's diary - to 'fastnesses in the Mountains of Desolation' suggest the Fallen had been preparing for some time. Once the fighting began, however, any small industrial modules they'd managed to hide away in the mountains were enormously outclassed, because Hamilcar hadn't been disposed of."


Later, in TFT, we have the Charisians supporting the development of the provinces in West Haven - including the Desolation Mountains.

Could the early reference to the use of the Desolation Mountains as a Fallen base of operations in HFQ be a Chekhov's gun? With all the new development going in in West Haven - with Charisian help and funding - might we see the discovery of a heretofore undiscovered Fallen citadel?


I strongly suspect that Chihiro and company searched those mountains THOROUGHLY.
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by Dilandu   » Mon May 03, 2021 3:15 am

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Hardly. It would be way too obvious a location, since Archangels knew it was Fallens stronghold. Fallens did not have much resources to begin with; and most of what they have was most likely lost during the war. There might be SOME last-ditch holdout attempts (after all, Inquisition clearly HAVE some real heresies to fight, otherwise it should already degrade to pure formality), but hardly on the large scale.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by PeterZ   » Mon May 03, 2021 9:58 am

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Agreed. Furthermore, if such a holdout exists, look into the Barren Lands.


Dilandu wrote:Hardly. It would be way too obvious a location, since Archangels knew it was Fallens stronghold. Fallens did not have much resources to begin with; and most of what they have was most likely lost during the war. There might be SOME last-ditch holdout attempts (after all, Inquisition clearly HAVE some real heresies to fight, otherwise it should already degrade to pure formality), but hardly on the large scale.
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by mhicks   » Mon May 03, 2021 10:21 pm

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I have always been curious about the tunnels that the one arch bishop used to escape. I don't remember his name or the book, but his servant helped him get though uncharted tunnels that looked like mine shafts. I always thought that they could lead to a Fallen hideout or production center. If only the inner circle was made aware of the tunnels, then OWL could send SNARKS in to investigate and map it out, looking for electronic clues and force fields etc.

It would be interesting to see where RFC will have the production centers pop up. It will also be interesting to see who else is holding back information on the FALLEN. A second sisters of Kohdy type group.

Or maybe a small town with a big secret that even the inquisitors knew not to talk about. One of those creepy towns that everyone is watching your every move and each time you try to walk down the path to the water mill someone stops you, the road gets blocked... kind of like in the TRUMAN SHOW each time he tries to get off the island.
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by Dilandu   » Tue May 04, 2021 3:10 am

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mhicks wrote:
Or maybe a small town with a big secret that even the inquisitors knew not to talk about. One of those creepy towns that everyone is watching your every move and each time you try to walk down the path to the water mill someone stops you, the road gets blocked... kind of like in the TRUMAN SHOW each time he tries to get off the island.


The probability of such a society surviving for long without attracting the interest of Inquisition is minuscule. Currently we knew about two holdout efforts:

* Brethren of Saint Zherneau - survived the WaF due to being inactive at this time (its founding documents were sealed long before the WaF, and opened long after)

* Sisterhood of Saint Kohdy - was created after the WaF, and basically survived just because of some unspecified blunder (there were no practical reason for Archangels to return Kohdy's body and erase his legacy from books; they could just claim that Kohdy was "taken to Langhorne's throne for his faithful service")
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Wed May 05, 2021 1:30 am

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Dilandu wrote:
mhicks wrote:
Or maybe a small town with a big secret that even the inquisitors knew not to talk about. One of those creepy towns that everyone is watching your every move and each time you try to walk down the path to the water mill someone stops you, the road gets blocked... kind of like in the TRUMAN SHOW each time he tries to get off the island.


The probability of such a society surviving for long without attracting the interest of Inquisition is minuscule. Currently we knew about two holdout efforts:

* Brethren of Saint Zherneau - survived the WaF due to being inactive at this time (its founding documents were sealed long before the WaF, and opened long after)

* Sisterhood of Saint Kohdy - was created after the WaF, and basically survived just because of some unspecified blunder (there were no practical reason for Archangels to return Kohdy's body and erase his legacy from books; they could just claim that Kohdy was "taken to Langhorne's throne for his faithful service")


I am fairly certain that the documents preserved by the Brethren were sealed away well after that war (being an Adam, Saint Zherneau should have lived several decades after the end of the war).
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by Dilandu   » Wed May 05, 2021 3:56 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
I am fairly certain that the documents preserved by the Brethren were sealed away well after that war (being an Adam, Saint Zherneau should have lived several decades after the end of the war).


Problem is, they mention nothing about the war. Which indicates, that they were most likely sealed after the destruction of Alexandria (since it was mentioned), but before the start of WAF. Otherwise at least something regarding the war would be mentioned here.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Undiscovered Fallen Citadel in the Desolation Mountains?
Post by Julia Minor   » Wed May 05, 2021 11:07 am

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mhicks wrote:I have always been curious about the tunnels that the one arch bishop used to escape. I don't remember his name or the book, but his servant helped him get though uncharted tunnels that looked like mine shafts. I always thought that they could lead to a Fallen hideout or production center. If only the inner circle was made aware of the tunnels, then OWL could send SNARKS in to investigate and map it out, looking for electronic clues and force fields etc.


Sounds like Zhasyn Cahnyr's escape in AMF, though I'm pretty sure those tunnels were specifically identified as hand-dug mine shafts. OTOH, Cahnyr also thinks that it would have been extremely difficult to have shipped the coal from that mine anywhere -- maybe it wasn't being shipped very far, just to a hidden base?
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