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Arcana attacking | |
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by brnicholas » Sun May 17, 2015 12:28 pm | |
brnicholas
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I was surprised by how optimistic some of the posts in response to Snippet 2 were about Arcana's ability to stop Sharonan advances. I would like to propose a hypothetical situation to help me understand that optimism.
Sharona is advancing across an open relatively flat plain (like the US Great Plains) building a double track rail line as they go. Arcana has attempted to destroy railroad track but via a combination of running shorter but much more frequent trains to patrol the track and stationing repair crews along it every two or three hundred miles Sharona has managed to make this ineffective. The Arcanan raiders are slowing them but the track is staying open and enough supplies are getting through for the advance to continue. The Arcanan commander has decided to hit targets more difficult to repair then railroad track over flat land. He has chosen to target a bridge over a small river at the bottom of a valley. The Sharonans recognized this bridge's value when they built it. So they built it to resist Arcanan attack and also put in fortifications for an infantry company they assigned to defend it. Both the bridge and the fortifications were planned in light of what they learned about the Arcanans from Fallen Timbers and Fort Salby. My question is what forces does Arcana need to deploy to destroy this bridge and what kind of losses are they likely to take in the process? Destroying the Sharonan company is a nice bonus but isn't necessary. I'm optimistic about Sharonan advances because I don't see any way for Arcana to do this without taking significant losses themselves or using a one time trick which the Sharonans will be prepared for next time. Other people here seem to see a way, could you enlighten me regarding what that is? Thanks, Nicholas |
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by PeterZ » Sun May 17, 2015 12:58 pm | |
PeterZ
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I believe you might have a point, Nicholas. If the Arcanans lose a battle dragon for every bridge and Sharonan infantry company destroyed, who suffers more? At 20 some odd years to replace a battle dragon Sharona would count such an exchange rate acceptable.
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by Mil-tech bard » Mon May 18, 2015 1:52 pm | |
Mil-tech bard
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Steam trains require water and fuel as well as mechanical repair stations and signals to control train traffic.
These require numerous stations to provide them. They also require lots of small bridges to cross creeks, gully's and other small/intermittent water courses even in nominally "flat" terrain. All are extremely vulnerable to dragon interdiction either by direct attack or by air-lifted raiding units, This is what military railways do for you -- Military Railways http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... ailway.htm
This is what raiders could do to a railway -- The Impact of Railroads on Warfare During the American Civil War by david.hollis on February 16, 2010 http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2010 ... civil-war/
The Arcanians have 100-to-150 mph (161-to-214 KPH) vertical/short take off dragons airlift that can emplace 40 mph Unicorn mounted troops behind Sharonan lines. Unicorn mounted troops that can have magical flame and lightning throwers as well as engineering spells that can drop bridges as effectively as explosives. And they also have deception spells to cover their movements. I suggest you read the following in that light. Railroad Generalship: Foundations of Civil War Strategy www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA445773 Railroad's Critical Role in the Civil War Originally published by America's Civil War magazine 1996 Published Online: June 12, 2006 http://www.historynet.com/railroads-cri ... il-war.htm
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by Mil-tech bard » Mon May 18, 2015 2:03 pm | |
Mil-tech bard
Posts: 256
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I suggest folks go here, look at the railway map and read General Sherman and his command staff reports on railways supporting Sherman's Atlanta campaign with railroads.
Railroads and the Making of Modern America The Atlanta Campaign of 1864 http://railroads.unl.edu/views/item/1864rr
The picture provided at the related link -- Burning the Railroad Bridge at Resaca, Georgia This image from the July 2, 1864 issue of Harper's Weekly depicts Union soldiers under the command of General William T. Sherman destroying a railroad bridge at Resaca, Georgia during the American Civil War. http://railroads.unl.edu/documents/view ... l.str.0222 Answers why many of us are pessimistic on the speed of Sharona's advance versus Dragon airpower. |
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by Mil-tech bard » Mon May 18, 2015 2:16 pm | |
Mil-tech bard
Posts: 256
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See also below and imagine the Arab raiders had dragon airlift, demolition spells and unicorn cavalry --
Lawrence of Arabia Arab Warfare http://www.pbs.org/lawrenceofarabia/rev ... fare3.html
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by PeterZ » Mon May 18, 2015 3:02 pm | |
PeterZ
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Thank you for the posts and links, MTB.
The difference between both Lawrence's and Sherman's marches are logistics. Sherman had a secure supply line and the resources to keep it secure. Lawrence did not have to project force. His forces came from the area for the most part. Arecana has to project force well past their secure and established supply lines. Fort Salby guards a pretty defensible bottleneck. Sharona doesn't have to defend their lines until Fort Salby and the Arcanans change that without taking Fort Salby first. Further, there are more Sharonans between Fort Salby and Hell's Gate than Arcanans. Those Arab insurgents better describe Sharonans who want a piece of the Arcanan invaders. Sneak a couple of snipers with .50 Cal rifles close to the Dragon pens and 20 years of investment dies with each round between the eyes or in the eyes. Send enough frontiersmen so armed and enough will find their way deep enough to kill dragons. Better yet guard each potential railroad target with 3-4 snipers hidden and armed dragon killer rifles. How soon before dragon assisted attacks on railroads are counterindicated? Even if the dragons are tougher to kill even with .50 cal sniper rifles, are the riders as well protected? While attacking, probably. On the ground while tending to the beasts? Not so much. |
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by Mil-tech bard » Mon May 18, 2015 3:21 pm | |
Mil-tech bard
Posts: 256
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Peter Z.
Mobility is a weapon all its own in a low force density conflict. Unicorns, heavy horse and even griffins are a great deal more expendable than dragons and all were air-lifted tens of thousands of miles to Ft Salby. Air-landed and air-resupplied Unicorn cavalry puts paid to most of your countermeasures. Arcanian forces can live off the land far better than those of Sharona for the simple reason of dragon speed, range and mobility from food sources. Consider what the bison herds of the North American great plains, the herds of the African savanna or Eurasian step, or whale spawning grounds off of several continents means for Dragon resupply. They all represent dragon resupply based that can be 100 miles from the nearest rail line in a near virgin universe to drop off raiding forces to ravage railway lines. No Sharonan horse cavalry force can catch a unicorn cavalry force, nor can any number of railway covering .50 caliber sniper rifles deal with night time raiders. Arcania will have to pay a great deal to learn these lessons, but they will and Sharona's offensive's will slow down over time reflecting that.
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Re: Arcana attacking-spoiler | |
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by PeterZ » Mon May 18, 2015 3:35 pm | |
PeterZ
Posts: 6432
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spoiler
I love your posts, MTB. They indicate just how much fund these books will be to read. A bit of outside information I picked up a couple of years back. RFC is playing around with steam tanks and other applications of steam to mechanized warfare. I thought he wanted to use this for Safehold, but that storyline does not appear to be advanced enough to include steam powered mechanized cavalry or infantry. Sharona, now, might fit that bill nicely. Steam tanks and APCs against your unicorns will be fun to read about. Unlike IC engines, Sharona has a very well developed steam tech base. Dragons drop the heavy ground forces far away and let the ground forces approach the Sharonan mech forces. A bit more even sounding to me. Dragons get too close and they die. The big question is how evenly matched are the ground forces? I can't wait to find out. |
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by Howard T. Map-addict » Tue May 19, 2015 3:20 pm | |
Howard T. Map-addict
Posts: 1392
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No, the Arcanans will *not* choose targets based on
how difficult they are to repair. They will avoid targets that are *defended* and will choose targets that are *not* defended. Over three or four *hundred* miles of railroad, there must be many such targets! The presence of a Sharonan company ... or platoon ... or five men waving flags (well, maybe not that) ... will cause the Arcanans to reject that bridge as a target. There are plenty of other bridges, after all, in four hundred miles. Then there are all of those miles of rails laid on level ground, which can be pulled up, flown away, and deposited a hundred miles to the side of the road, in a place that requires more than a cursory search to find. In short, "Hit them where they ain't!" Those "more frequent trains" could run every fifteen minutes, and still not be frequent enough to cover the entire railroad, all of the time. The Arcanans need only watch from a distance till a train passes, dash in and grab three or four rails (or even one!), and then the next train will be delayed an extra five or ten minutes to replace them. That will give the Arcanans 20 or 25 minutes to make the next raid, and steal six or eight rails. Nuff said? HTM
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Re: Arcana attacking | |
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by PeterZ » Tue May 19, 2015 3:41 pm | |
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Quite right, Howard. I do wonder how many snipers armed with a .50 caliber 8-10x scoped rifle would it take to generate 50% odds of having one within effective range of a visiting dragon? If every other attack on the unguarded railroad risks one dead dragon, how long will the Arcanans continue to risk this?
If the amount of resources is small enough, what will it take to increase the odds to 75% or 100%? Will it be worth it to risk the snipers in order to get a shot at the dragons? At one point getting a shot at dragons will be more important than protecting the railroad. In other words shooting dragons is a twofer. It harms the Arcanan transport ability as well as protects the railroad. Sending hoards of snipers to patrol the railroads to shoot dragons would be a good thing even if the dragons still tear up the railroad. So long as enough dragons are killed tearing up the tracks.
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