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Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]

David's and Jacob Holo's newest alternate, cross history series.
Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:55 pm

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Why in the world did SysGov allow a sociopath anywhere near anything as dangerous as a time machine?! I can't believe they can't detect them.

(Yes, he's never identified as one but he clearly is.)
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:44 am

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Loren Pechtel wrote:Why in the world did SysGov allow a sociopath anywhere near anything as dangerous as a time machine?! I can't believe they can't detect them.

(Yes, he's never identified as one but he clearly is.)


I guess your parentheses are the whole crux of the problem: identifying. Lucius hid his true self very well, probably with help from his family. All of his escapades during the ART operations were unknown to the public at large. Raibert revealed them during the Alexandria Exhibit, but that still failed to bring him down. He was probably not much more a degenerate than others: remember, with virtual reality readily accessible, one can probably experience anything one wishes. So experiencing in the past versus a virtual reality as distinction without a difference.

But I guess there are limits. People who like to experience inflicting pain or murdering others probably raise red flags. So Lucius should have been flagged... but wasn't. My guess is SysGov is big on rehabilitating people.

After the ART went down, he seemed to reinvent himself for the better. Remember he helped almost all of the researchers who wanted out of ART to find jobs elsewhere. And he was dedicating to the Mercury Historical Preservation Society. In either case, we don't know why he did it or what ulterior motives he had, if any.

So when did he decide on his plan?

My guess is that it wasn't until very late, until he had the means. That would be when the equations showed that he could create the hyperforge that he had the means to destroy universes while escaping from one. Until then, he was probably just your regular psycho.

Did you notice how the Dynasty didn't have a lot of ACs? Teodorà says it was because Belisarius and Justinian and their wives decided not abstract and that may be partly true. My guess is that Lucius was also behind it, subtly manipulating messaging and public opinion all along, to limit anyone who could compete with him.
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:45 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:Why in the world did SysGov allow a sociopath anywhere near anything as dangerous as a time machine?! I can't believe they can't detect them.

(Yes, he's never identified as one but he clearly is.)


I guess your parentheses are the whole crux of the problem: identifying. Lucius hid his true self very well, probably with help from his family. All of his escapades during the ART operations were unknown to the public at large. Raibert revealed them during the Alexandria Exhibit, but that still failed to bring him down. He was probably not much more a degenerate than others: remember, with virtual reality readily accessible, one can probably experience anything one wishes. So experiencing in the past versus a virtual reality as distinction without a difference.

But I guess there are limits. People who like to experience inflicting pain or murdering others probably raise red flags. So Lucius should have been flagged... but wasn't. My guess is SysGov is big on rehabilitating people.

After the ART went down, he seemed to reinvent himself for the better. Remember he helped almost all of the researchers who wanted out of ART to find jobs elsewhere. And he was dedicating to the Mercury Historical Preservation Society. In either case, we don't know why he did it or what ulterior motives he had, if any.

So when did he decide on his plan?

My guess is that it wasn't until very late, until he had the means. That would be when the equations showed that he could create the hyperforge that he had the means to destroy universes while escaping from one. Until then, he was probably just your regular psycho.

Did you notice how the Dynasty didn't have a lot of ACs? Teodorà says it was because Belisarius and Justinian and their wives decided not abstract and that may be partly true. My guess is that Lucius was also behind it, subtly manipulating messaging and public opinion all along, to limit anyone who could compete with him.


I'm not saying they should have detected his evil plans--of course they can't. What I'm saying is they should have detected that he was a sociopath and not allowed him anywhere near dangerous tech. He never should have been in ART in the first place!

Consider all the checks we have for dealing with nuclear weapons. I would expect at least that level of checks around tech that makes nukes look like a firecracker.
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:37 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:I'm not saying they should have detected his evil plans--of course they can't. What I'm saying is they should have detected that he was a sociopath and not allowed him anywhere near dangerous tech. He never should have been in ART in the first place!

Consider all the checks we have for dealing with nuclear weapons. I would expect at least that level of checks around tech that makes nukes look like a firecracker.


Until the Knot, time travel was considered safe technology. He would put himself and others in no more danger than travelling on a shuttle to Saturn.

After the Knot, he wasn't allowed on a TTV. He was still the chairman of ART, but ART didn't have any TTVs any more except for the two deep-time explorers. The regular TTVs were transferred to the Gordian Division.
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:56 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:I'm not saying they should have detected his evil plans--of course they can't. What I'm saying is they should have detected that he was a sociopath and not allowed him anywhere near dangerous tech. He never should have been in ART in the first place!

Consider all the checks we have for dealing with nuclear weapons. I would expect at least that level of checks around tech that makes nukes look like a firecracker.


Until the Knot, time travel was considered safe technology. He would put himself and others in no more danger than travelling on a shuttle to Saturn.

After the Knot, he wasn't allowed on a TTV. He was still the chairman of ART, but ART didn't have any TTVs any more except for the two deep-time explorers. The regular TTVs were transferred to the Gordian Division.


Time travel was thought to be safe, the weaponry of a TTV is another matter.
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:39 am

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Loren Pechtel wrote:Time travel was thought to be safe, the weaponry of a TTV is another matter.


Good point. I guess the ship itself locks the weaponry down when it reaches the True Present.

23% sass tax to Kleio...
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by GregD   » Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:19 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:Time travel was thought to be safe, the weaponry of a TTV is another matter.


This is a society where random protesters can deface the surface of the moon so that you can see it from HOW far away?

Compared to that? The weapons on a TTV are small change
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by drothgery   » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:22 pm

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Probably missing a better thread for this but I guess after finally getting around to reading (and liking, to be clear), TVP ...

How did Lucius manage to not blow his cover sufficiently to get caught in two and a half millennia in the Dynasty? He's clearly neither stable nor rational, and even being sufficiently ruthless to kill to cover his tracks that's a long time to go without slipping up.

And more importantly, where the heck did Lucius think he was going to escape to if temporal replication really did cause the Dynasty universe to collapse? He never seems to have considered this.
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:04 am

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drothgery wrote:Probably missing a better thread for this but I guess after finally getting around to reading (and liking, to be clear), TVP ...

How did Lucius manage to not blow his cover sufficiently to get caught in two and a half millennia in the Dynasty? He's clearly neither stable nor rational, and even being sufficiently ruthless to kill to cover his tracks that's a long time to go without slipping up.

And more importantly, where the heck did Lucius think he was going to escape to if temporal replication really did cause the Dynasty universe to collapse? He never seems to have considered this.


I don't remember him having any idea that temporal replication had any drawbacks (and if he had left the Dynasty BEFORE the rupture, he would have escaped clean).
----------------------------
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(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Sociopaths [TVP spoiler]
Post by Jacob Holo   » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:15 pm

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
drothgery wrote:How did Lucius manage to not blow his cover sufficiently to get caught in two and a half millennia in the Dynasty? He's clearly neither stable nor rational, and even being sufficiently ruthless to kill to cover his tracks that's a long time to go without slipping up.

And more importantly, where the heck did Lucius think he was going to escape to if temporal replication really did cause the Dynasty universe to collapse? He never seems to have considered this.


I don't remember him having any idea that temporal replication had any drawbacks (and if he had left the Dynasty BEFORE the rupture, he would have escaped clean).


Mostly, Lucius managed to not blow his cover by being patient, waiting until the Dynasty’s tech base matured to a suitable level. He utilized the same “digital hibernation” Teodora mentions to Raibert during their initial reunion. This allowed him to fast forward through the years, so to speak, which suited him just fine because there really wasn’t much for him to do until the tech he needed was just around the corner.

His first major villainous act—after murdering Shadow back in 541 CE—was to murder the Dynasty’s temporal scientist Siv Eriksen and to bury her concerns about temporal replication. That was really it until Teodora and Pepys stumbled upon the evidence and his plan went into full swing.

As a character, I consider Lucius to be both mentally stable and highly rational (he has other problems, though). For example, he’s capable of formulating coherence, effective plans and sticking to them for very long periods of time, which the novel demonstrates to a lot of people’s detriment. That said, there’s also the “minor” issue that he lacks anything resembling a conscience.

Lucius knew the Tesseract would doom the Dynasty based on Eriksen’s hidden theories, which is why he pushed Vlastos to upgrade its impeller for transdimensional travel. This was essentially the capstone of his plan, since he’d always intended to use the station as a lifeboat of sorts to leave the wreckage of the Dynasty—and SysGov—behind.
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