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Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine

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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by n7axw   » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:51 am

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Biden has always been capable of making gaffes as long as I have following him... about 30 years. So I am not surprised by this latest incident. He is also warm hearted and openly expressive. But anyone who assumes that he has no steel in his spine is in for a rude awakening.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by cthia   » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:55 am

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n7axw wrote:Biden has always been capable of making gaffes as long as I have following him... about 30 years. So I am not surprised by this latest incident. He is also warm hearted and openly expressive. But anyone who assumes that he has no steel in his spine is in for a rude awakening.

Don

That is my sister's take on him as well, that he isn't good at facing the media and he can be upended if it goes off the script. But his backbone is strong. My sister worked in government in Washington for over four decades.

But my point was whether his latest foot in his mouth has to do with any already agreed upon plans to give Putin concessions. It must be incredibly difficult to face the nation and answer questions without giving away any despicable secrets and or classified information.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:43 pm

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n7axw wrote:Biden has always been capable of making gaffes as long as I have following him... about 30 years. So I am not surprised by this latest incident. He is also warm hearted and openly expressive. But anyone who assumes that he has no steel in his spine is in for a rude awakening.
Don

That Biden has steel in his makeup should be clear to anyone. In this day and age, it would be inconceivable that anyone lacking such would have the fortitude to be elected to high office. Politics and the media would see to that.
That he misspoke is one thing, but he; and the US, should be judged on deeds as well as words. During the current crisis they have been as supportive as the situation permits.
As for the most recent cussing, all that shows is that he is human. ;)
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:02 pm

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One has to wonder if the new rapports of Russia planning “false flag” operations against the Ukraine are based on new intelligence, or are simply a rehash of the original story.
All though the item about making a video, complete with littered blood soaked bodies, captured equipment and uniforms and fake mourners, is new.
All that said, one must credit Russian propagandists with a modicum of common sense. Since the story regarding “false flags” broke it has probably gone around the world. Therefore any story regarding insane Ukrainian suicide squads attacking Russia or Russian interest, would most likely be viewed with more than a grain of salt by anyone with more than two working brain cells!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60248259
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by n7axw   » Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:45 pm

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Arol wrote:
n7axw wrote:
Do you believe an invasion is going to happen?

Don-


At the risk of sounding trite, I have to echo the words of the talking heads on news shows: “Apparently only Putin knows!”
On the one hand Russia being an Autocratic Kleptocracy the people who run things are usually primarily interested in one thing; MONEY! A full scale invasion, followed with a fighting a popular insurrection, will be costly; especially with the heavy sanctions they sure as hell would face. Also their politicians and diplomats would be proven as ball faced liars. No news there! But this time the whole world will have seen it on video.
Take also the sheer cost in logistics that is entailed in moving an army of over 100,000; with all their equipment, during winter to new quarters near the border. All of this, simply as a disinformation diplomatic ploy has also been aired, but that seems a bit out there!
Play that against Putin having reached the pinnacle of power in his country, has made it clear that he would like to see a resurgent Russia. Also he seems to become infected with the penchant to pick off other people’s territory that has been endemic in Russian rulers down through history. Quite successfully too!!! By hook-and –crook, from a fly speck on the banks of the Volga, to what they are today, Putin is simply continuing in the same-old same old.
Murphey being Murphey, I’d give it 60/40 in favour of invasion.
At least they are still talking!


Up on u-tube, I follow Beau of the Fifth Column. He comes off very home spun, but sharp. He usually makes a lot of sense. His take is that we are entering into a new cold war. In a cold war large near peer nations don't go to war with each other because it is too expensive with too much chance of things spinning out of control, especially given the existence of nukes. So conflict gets carried out through proxies such as Ukraine.

Putin's risk is not war, but sanctions stiff enough to tank his economy.And if invades, there is little doubt but what happens he can over run the country. But I doubt that he could stay long term. Ukraine is not toothless and won't greet the Russians with sweetness and light. It could turn into another Vietnam.

Don

_
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Joat42   » Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:31 am

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Arol wrote:..snip..
All that said, one must credit Russian propagandists with a modicum of common sense. Since the story regarding “false flags” broke it has probably gone around the world. Therefore any story regarding insane Ukrainian suicide squads attacking Russia or Russian interest, would most likely be viewed with more than a grain of salt by anyone with more than two working brain cells!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60248259

Remember, any Russian false flag operation is entirely intended as a propaganda piece for the Russian public. What the rest of the world think about it is secondary.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:55 pm

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n7axw wrote:
Up on u-tube, I follow Beau of the Fifth Column. He comes off very home spun, but sharp. He usually makes a lot of sense. His take is that we are entering into a new cold war. In a cold war large near peer nations don't go to war with each other because it is too expensive with too much chance of things spinning out of control, especially given the existence of nukes. So conflict gets carried out through proxies such as Ukraine.

Putin's risk is not war, but sanctions stiff enough to tank his economy.And if invades, there is little doubt but what happens he can over run the country. But I doubt that he could stay long term. Ukraine is not toothless and won't greet the Russians with sweetness and light. It could turn into another Vietnam.

Don_

The Vietnam War should certainly be studied by anyone looking at fighting a popular insurgency.
But Russians won’t have to look any further back, then at the consequences of their military incursion in Afghanistan in 1979.
The economic cost notwithstanding, and Russian casualties around 40-60 thousands with 15,000 dead, after ten years of fierce and bloody constant fighting they were chased out of the country in ’89.
The economic costs and the arrival back in Mother Russia of body bags and crippled vets, is sure to have played a hand in the implosion of the USSR. Something Putin should bear in mind!
Joat42 wrote:Remember, any Russian false flag operation is entirely intended as a propaganda piece for the Russian public. What the rest of the world think about it is secondary.

Then I guess that it’ll be with what optics the home audience views a possible video. Those that are already minded to view the Ukrainians as aggressors will no doubt take it to heart, and reject all mention of fake and fraud. As for the rest? Undoubtedly any skeptic with suspicions, will keep them to themselves; protest and dissent, come with a heavy price in Russia.

Since when is the opponent(s) in any contest or conflict given the right to dictate who can oppose them?
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia- ... g-ukraine/
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Joat42   » Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:46 pm

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Arol wrote:Then I guess that it’ll be with what optics the home audience views a possible video. Those that are already minded to view the Ukrainians as aggressors will no doubt take it to heart, and reject all mention of fake and fraud.


It's what all the media is pumping out in Russia: Ukraine is the aggressor, NATO and the US wants a war etc.

Arol wrote:Since when is the opponent(s) in any contest or conflict given the right to dictate who can oppose them?

Never, but it's a convenient excuse to use when you want to manufacture a <i>casus belli</i>.

---
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:29 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
Arol wrote:Then I guess that it’ll be with what optics the home audience views a possible video. Those that are already minded to view the Ukrainians as aggressors will no doubt take it to heart, and reject all mention of fake and fraud.

It's what all the media is pumping out in Russia: Ukraine is the aggressor, NATO and the US wants a war etc.

One of the western mainstream newspersons reporting from Moscow remarked that in respect to media coverage of the Ukraine; it was like being in an alternate reality with two diametrical opposite viewpoints of the same event.
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:02 pm

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https://news.err.ee/1608492975/expert-m ... -the-table

In 1938, then UK Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in a face-to-face with Hitler sold Czechoslovakia down the river, to achieve “peace in our time”!
Yahh right we know what that led to!!!
French president Macron, by even bringing up the possibility of a “Finlandizatiaon” of the Ukraine in his face-to-face with President Putin, is apparently ready to do the same: also in the name of peace!!!
Kipling had the right of it, when he wrote the poem Dane-Geld, that giving in to blackmail; paying Dane-Geld, is a losing proposition, as the Dane inevitably will return to tap the well.
It follows therefore that for the Ukrainians to be forced to bite the bullet, and ceding to the Russia the Crimea, and acceding to the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk Republics, is likewise in a losing position. As like the rapacious Dane, Russia would undoubtedly be back for more.
E.g. a land corridor linking Crimea with the Donetsk and Luhansk Republics would probably next on their wish-list!
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