Election 2020

isaac_newton wrote:

n7axw wrote:I think Puerto Rico and DC will eventually have statehood status. (Tongue in cheek) I will leave it to cthia's niece to decide how the electoral votes are divided up. For my money do away with the whole anachronistic husiness.

Don

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what is Trump up to now [sacking entire civilian defence bods] - it's looking rather scary from the outside?

or are we just panicking?

A bit worrying at least!
Changing out in the top of the civilian military establishment with his supporters; including one whose political viewpoints are to the right of Atilla the Hun!
The time to really start panicking is when he appoints Roger Stone to head up the FBI!

isaac_newton wrote:

n7axw wrote:I think Puerto Rico and DC will eventually have statehood status. (Tongue in cheek) I will leave it to cthia's niece to decide how the electoral votes are divided up. For my money do away with the whole anachronistic husiness.

Don

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what is Trump up to now [sacking entire civilian defence bods] - it's looking rather scary from the outside?

or are we just panicking?

Yes and no...

First, Trump is an aspiring dictator. ALL of his role models of "strong leadership" are dictators and authoritarian autocrats and he hasn't been shy about letting us know it for the last four years.

Understanding that to be his mindset, his first reaction to his looming removal from office is naturally to try and purge anyone from military leadership he perceives to be insufficiently loyal to him personally.

And yeah, that's scary. And no, it's not wrong to be seriously concerned about it. If Trump COULD pull off a coup backed by military force to keep him in office he would absolutely try to.

But... I see almost zero possibility he could pull it off. No matter who he installs in the Pentagon he just has not had enough time to corrupt the entire military to sufficient extent that they would back his play if he tried to do it. If he had had another four years to work on it who knows, but as things stand today I don't see him doing it. So that's going nowhere.

What I am more worried about is:

1. The constant muttering about trying to get the election overturned legislatively by having Republican controlled state legislatures defy their vote results and appoint "loyal" electoral college electors who will vote for Trump regardless of what the people of their state voted for, based on their claims the elections results were "rigged" and they have to "fix" them to "save" democracy. I don't think this would succeed either but it would cause absolute chaos.

2. The concerted and deliberate propaganda campaign directed at convincing the GOP electorate that the election was fraudulent. Every case brought to a court has been instantly booted back out due to there being absolutely no evidence to back it up but you don't need evidence for the right wing media machine and this bullshit is doing a ton of damage to democratic (small d) institutions in the US long term. Not that Trump cares, he's perfectly willing to burn the country down behind him on the way out the door. He's exactly that kind of petty tantrum throwing narcissistic sociopath.

According to Rudi:

Today the @realDonaldTrump campaign sued to invalidate hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots in the Western District of Michigan.

Not a single piece of evidence for fraud in the submitted court documents.

Strangely, I'm not surprised.

gcomeau wrote:

isaac_newton wrote: SNIP
what is Trump up to now [sacking entire civilian defence bods] - it's looking rather scary from the outside?

or are we just panicking?

Yes and no...

First, Trump is an aspiring dictator. ALL of his role models of "strong leadership" are dictators and authoritarian autocrats and he hasn't been shy about letting us know it for the last four years.

Understanding that to be his mindset, his first reaction to his looming removal from office is naturally to try and purge anyone from military leadership he perceives to be insufficiently loyal to him personally.

And yeah, that's scary. And no, it's not wrong to be seriously concerned about it. If Trump COULD pull off a coup backed by military force to keep him in office he would absolutely try to.

But... I see almost zero possibility he could pull it off. No matter who he installs in the Pentagon he just has not had enough time to corrupt the entire military to sufficient extent that they would back his play if he tried to do it. If he had had another four years to work on it who knows, but as things stand today I don't see him doing it. So that's going nowhere.

What I am more worried about is:

1. The constant muttering about trying to get the election overturned legislatively by having Republican controlled state legislatures defy their vote results and appoint "loyal" electoral college electors who will vote for Trump regardless of what the people of their state voted for, based on their claims the elections results were "rigged" and they have to "fix" them to "save" democracy. I don't think this would succeed either but it would cause absolute chaos.

2. The concerted and deliberate propaganda campaign directed at convincing the GOP electorate that the election was fraudulent. Every case brought to a court has been instantly booted back out due to there being absolutely no evidence to back it up but you don't need evidence for the right wing media machine and this bullshit is doing a ton of damage to democratic (small d) institutions in the US long term. Not that Trump cares, he's perfectly willing to burn the country down behind him on the way out the door. He's exactly that kind of petty tantrum throwing narcissistic sociopath.

Thanks. I had heard that he had upset a lot of the military [from top to bottom], in various ways, including by the act of disparaging postal votes!

The rest is indeed v concerning.

On a [hopefully] cheerful note - when he leaves office will his empire keep standing or will it collapse?

If the latter glorious event happens - what are the possible triggers?

isaac_newton wrote:On a [hopefully] cheerful note - when he leaves office will his empire keep standing or will it collapse?

If the latter glorious event happens - what are the possible triggers?

Several possibilities spring to mind:
* Fallout from lawsuits requiring financial disclosures
* Damage to the Trump brand
* Senility
* heightened scrutiny from law enforcement and legislators both domestically and internationally
* A lack of allies: Trump, being a transactional creature, should understand but will actually be supremely hurt by anyone dropping him like a hot potato after he leaves office

The E wrote:

isaac_newton wrote:On a [hopefully] cheerful note - when he leaves office will his empire keep standing or will it collapse?

If the latter glorious event happens - what are the possible triggers?

Several possibilities spring to mind:
* Fallout from lawsuits requiring financial disclosures
* Damage to the Trump brand
* Senility
* heightened scrutiny from law enforcement and legislators both domestically and internationally
* A lack of allies: Trump, being a transactional creature, should understand but will actually be supremely hurt by anyone dropping him like a hot potato after he leaves office

On the last point, don't kid yourself. His groupies will cling to him like glue. Then when he dies, he will become the godlike figure they worship.

Don

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I saw a theory today that his personal loans don't equal $400M, but $1.1B. If so, he may well be in deep do do, when no longer protected by his office.

Daryl wrote:I saw a theory today that his personal loans don't equal $400M, but $1.1B. If so, he may well be in deep do do, when no longer protected by his office.

You may have put the finger on why the B.O.M. is clinging so desperately; in spite of all logic, to the Presidency.
What you call “doo-doo” that’s waiting to fall on him, once he no longer has the protection of the presidential umbrella protecting him. It’s not just a little “doo-doo”, it’s an entire waste treatment plant!
The loans that you referred to that are becoming due, the IRS sniffing around his tax-records, a number of lawsuits pending; some with criminal implications, the fact that a large part of his personal fortune is tied up in resorts and hotels; not a healthy financial haven in these Corona times!

Arol wrote:

Daryl wrote:I saw a theory today that his personal loans don't equal $400M, but $1.1B. If so, he may well be in deep do do, when no longer protected by his office.

You may have put the finger on why the B.O.M. is clinging so desperately; in spite of all logic, to the Presidency.
What you call “doo-doo” that’s waiting to fall on him, once he no longer has the protection of the presidential umbrella protecting him. It’s not just a little “doo-doo”, it’s an entire waste treatment plant!
The loans that you referred to that are becoming due, the IRS sniffing around his tax-records, a number of lawsuits pending; some with criminal implications, the fact that a large part of his personal fortune is tied up in resorts and hotels; not a healthy financial haven in these Corona times!

There is enough criminal stuff out there to put Trump away for a long time if convivted...

Don

-.

The other rumour I heard was as long as the vote isn't certified he can keep fund raising, and that 60% or so of the funds are looping through PAC's to pay his debts.