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Putin playing hard-ball

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Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Arol   » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:41 am

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It does seem that there has been a spate of incidents recently where the Russians are marking off their territory.
In Syria the ramming of a US military vehicle, causing a few minor injuries to US personnel.
Over the Black Sea in International airspace, Russian fighters coming dangerously close to while they played “chicken” with a US B52 military aircraft.
Here today a Russian fighter violated Danish Airspace in the area around the Danish island of Bornholm in the southern Baltic. It occurred when it followed a US B52 taking part in ongoing exercises, into Danish airspace.
As for Belarus, it does seem that Putin has decided to come in on the side of Lukashenko, promising to send in Russian police units “if the situation gets out of control”.
It may be that Lukashenko is a Stalinist dinosaur, but I guess that in Putin’s eyes he’s classified as his Stalinist dinosaur.
Better the devil you know, then supporting an opposition that are made up of a myriad groups, some that have aspirations for a more Western type democracy. Simple “real politik”!
This at the same time that he has the B.O.M. in his hip pocket makes his actions fairly safe.
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:04 pm

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Well, in Syria we support the internationally recognized government by its own request, while US troops are essentially invaders, who have zero rights to even be here)

Over Black Sea, our fighters annoyed the bomber, which was send with the single purpose to intimidate us.

Over Baltic - yes, the intrusion was accidental, but again, if US bomber wasn't send to intimidate us, it would never happened.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Arol   » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:21 pm

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Dilandu wrote:Well, in Syria we support the internationally recognized government by its own request, while US troops are essentially invaders, who have zero rights to even be here)

Over Black Sea, our fighters annoyed the bomber, which was send with the single purpose to intimidate us.

Over Baltic - yes, the intrusion was accidental, but again, if US bomber wasn't send to intimidate us, it would never happened.

As to Syria, you are quite correct that the Russian troops are there at the behest of the government of Syria. Although a regime headed by a war-criminal that uses poison gas against his own people; in contravention of countless laws and agreements, can hardly be considered legitimate.
As for what you call “intimidation” by aircraft in international airspace, how do you reconcile that with the Russian War Games, that included a mock attack against the island of Bornholm and the east coast of Sweden back in ’18? War games that included live fire with missiles!
Or the harassment of civilian aircraft in and around the Baltic Sea, one of which came within a hundred meters of the civilian aircraft. Well I guess ”that what is good for the goose is good for the gander”!
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Daryl   » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:39 pm

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It has now been determined that Novichok was used to poison Alexei Navalny. If they had wanted it to be anonymous there are thousands of poisons available, but if they wanted to send a message then it would certainly do that.
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:15 am

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Daryl wrote:It has now been determined that Novichok was used to poison Alexei Navalny. If they had wanted it to be anonymous there are thousands of poisons available, but if they wanted to send a message then it would certainly do that.


Sorry to disappoint you, but the whole concept of "Novichok" was that its very hard to detect in organism.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Arol   » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:40 am

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Daryl wrote:It has now been determined that Novichok was used to poison Alexei Navalny. If they had wanted it to be anonymous there are thousands of poisons available, but if they wanted to send a message then it would certainly do that.

That makes perfect sense including the use of Novichok.
It’s a win-win for the perps. They send a clear message to eventual opponents and defectors. All the perps have to do is Deny! Deny! Deny!!
The victim will know who spiked his/her tea. People in the know will also know. Also the perps will know that they know.
Even if rumbled there’s always the old fallback. Blame it on rogue elements!
The use of a spiked cup of tea is particularly nasty, as to my knowledge tea is a staple in Russia, so making potential opponent’s paranoid about even their morning cup of tea, is like said nasty.
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Arol   » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:44 am

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Dilandu wrote:
Daryl wrote:It has now been determined that Novichok was used to poison Alexei Navalny. If they had wanted it to be anonymous there are thousands of poisons available, but if they wanted to send a message then it would certainly do that.


Sorry to disappoint you, but the whole concept of "Novichok" was that its very hard to detect in organism.

Sorry Dilandu.
You are correct in that Novichok is reputed to be hard to detect.
But remember that when the talk of poisoning first was raised, there were rapports of, if that was the case, why would the people behind it allow him to be taken to a Western hospital? That’s easy!
If you are trying to send a message, it helps if the message is seen and understood!
Not just hard-ball, but also using a spitball!
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Joat42   » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:14 am

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Dilandu wrote:
Daryl wrote:It has now been determined that Novichok was used to poison Alexei Navalny. If they had wanted it to be anonymous there are thousands of poisons available, but if they wanted to send a message then it would certainly do that.


Sorry to disappoint you, but the whole concept of "Novichok" was that its very hard to detect in organism.

Yes, using technology from 70's and 80's when the Novichok-agents where designed. That's 40+ years ago, technology has progressed significantly since then and detecting those types of agents are not particularly difficult if you have modern lab-equipment.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by The E   » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:20 am

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Joat42 wrote:Yes, using technology from 70's and 80's when the Novichok-agents where designed. That's 40+ years ago, technology has progressed significantly since then and detecting those types of agents are not particularly difficult if you have modern lab-equipment.


Novichok, at this point in time, is a way for Putin and his cronies to kill someone in a way that has a fig-leaf of deniability while also making it very clear that whoever did the killing is acting with the consent of the russian government.
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Re: Putin playing hard-ball
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:26 am

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The most likely suspect of Navalny's poisoning is the Tomsk's "city baron", which criminal actions he revealed. The unprofessional character of poisoning and the fact, that Navalny was soon send to Berlin rather clearly demonstrated that it is not the "hand of Moscow" (if he was poisoned by GRU or FSB, he would clearly be send into Moscow first, to make sure, that poison is untraceable). On the other hands, our Mafia was never well-known for particularly cunning assassinations...
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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