Iconic Bookstore Burned Down In Riots

gcomeau wrote:
How about now... theme emerging yet?

You mean the theme about the idiots on one side who want a violent revolution and the idiots on the other who want a race war? That theme?

Or do you mean the theme where - whatever side you’re on right now - it’s all the fault of the Other Guys?

Because I’ve seen both those themes before. Didn’t end well.

How about the theme where the Police are actively lying about shit:
https://twitter.com/CombatCavScout/stat ... 5076060162

Also, the people who want the violent revolution and the people who want the race war are ... well, they're one group. The people who you think of when you say "violent revolution" are the people who you ignored when they tried it peacefully.

The E wrote:How about the theme where the Police are actively lying about shit:
https://twitter.com/CombatCavScout/stat ... 5076060162

Also, the people who want the violent revolution and the people who want the race war are ... well, they're one group. The people who you think of when you say "violent revolution" are the people who you ignored when they tried it peacefully.

You’ve just given a demonstration of Theme 2. Whichever side you’re on, it’s all the fault of The Other Guys.

Bluesqueak wrote:

The E wrote:How about the theme where the Police are actively lying about shit:
https://twitter.com/CombatCavScout/stat ... 5076060162

Also, the people who want the violent revolution and the people who want the race war are ... well, they're one group. The people who you think of when you say "violent revolution" are the people who you ignored when they tried it peacefully.

You’ve just given a demonstration of Theme 2. Whichever side you’re on, it’s all the fault of The Other Guys.

It is unreal that this far into things anyone is still trying to pull the old "both sides are the same, but *I'm* all enlightened and above it all" BS...

Do you have eyes and ears?

Do you use them?

Bluesqueak wrote:You’ve just given a demonstration of Theme 2. Whichever side you’re on, it’s all the fault of The Other Guys.

BLM doesn't want a violent revolution though. Antifa doesn't want a violent revolution. The only people who do are right-wing race war idiots who have been daydreaming about being part of or fighting against some form of violent revolution.

There absolutely is a difference between the "Jews will not replace us" and the "Justice for George Floyd and Breonna Taylor" crowds.

EDIT:
To be clear, the difference is that one of these groups has been itching to have a justification for the silly arsenals they've acquired and the other has realized that real, lasting change cannot be negotiated for, not unless they've forced the other side (in this case, the US government) to the negotiating table by a show of force.

And just to make how much this is NOT a "both sides are guilty" situation abundantly clear...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ing-antifa

gcomeau wrote:
It is unreal that this far into things anyone is still trying to pull the old "both sides are the same, but *I'm* all enlightened and above it all" BS...

Do you have eyes and ears?

Do you use them?

Yup.

You are going to end up in a civil war - another civil war - telling yourselves all the time that you’re the good guys and the other side is evvvuuulll.

I came along and said ‘there are idiots on both sides’ and then ‘the two sides are getting so polarised.’ And the response was, variously, ‘this is why the other side are a bunch of lying bastards’ and ‘how dare you pull this enlightened bullshit’.

Most terrorist attacks in the US are from right wingers. But about 25 percent of attacks are from left wingers (which the Guardian said, if you dig down past the headline). They didn’t kill nearly as many people as the right wing terrorists, but that’s going to be a big consolation to the grieving families.

But if the left wingers only look at the evil done by the right, and the right only look at the evil done by the left - and neither side admit that there is any wrongdoing on their side, nope, all a bunch of idealistic angels doing righteous battle here -

- you will end up with a civil war. Because the civil war mindset, that MY side is on the side of the angels and THEIR side is made up of the legions of Hell, is becoming more and more marked.

Bluesqueak wrote:

gcomeau wrote:
It is unreal that this far into things anyone is still trying to pull the old "both sides are the same, but *I'm* all enlightened and above it all" BS...

Do you have eyes and ears?

Do you use them?

Yup.

You are going to end up in a civil war - another civil war - telling yourselves all the time that you’re the good guys and the other side is evvvuuulll.

I came along and said ‘there are idiots on both sides’ and then ‘the two sides are getting so polarised.’ And the response was, variously, ‘this is why the other side are a bunch of lying bastards’ and ‘how dare you pull this enlightened bullshit’.

Most terrorist attacks in the US are from right wingers. But about 25 percent of attacks are from left wingers (which the Guardian said, if you dig down past the headline). They didn’t kill nearly as many people as the right wing terrorists, but that’s going to be a big consolation to the grieving families.

It's a nearly 6X differential.

So take the "both sides are idiots" nonsense out of here.

Nobody is excusing when someone on the left goes homicidal but this is not even close to a "both sides are idiots" BS equivalency.

And to repeat the earlier question, seeing the theme yet?

https://www.startribune.com/police-umbr ... 571932272/

A masked man who was seen in a viral video smashing the windows of a south Minneapolis auto parts store during the George Floyd protests, earning him the moniker “Umbrella Man,” is suspected to be a member of the Hell’s Angels biker gang seeking to incite racial tension in a demonstration that until then had been peaceful, police said.

...

Police have also connected the 32-year-old man to a widely-publicized incident in Stillwater late last month, in which a Muslim woman was confronted by a group of men wearing white supremacist garb.

Just stop pulling this "both sides" BS. Only one side has the actual GOAL of inciting that civil war you are talking about. And they are taking actions to try to make it happen. And you're just trying to sit up on your pedestal pretending like you're above it all by declaring a pox on everyone's houses.

When there is a gross disparity between the evil and harm done and pursued by two sides of an issue then artificially pretending they are equally bad is picking a side. You're helping one side and harming another. And the side you're helping is the "let's start a race war" side. That's a choice you're making.

Joe Biden is on the TV screen right now. His theme is "build back better." That is where most us on the left are coming from. We are seeking a more perfect union, a country that lives up to its ideals by including everybody whatever your culture and color of your skin by living up to America's promise of opportunity and equal protection under the law.

Nobody wants a civil or a race war. But sometimes getting into what Representative Lewis would call "good trouble" is needed if progress is to be made toward tthose goals.

Don

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gcomeau wrote:
It's a nearly 6X differential.

So take the "both sides are idiots" nonsense out of here.

Wow. Just wow.

gcomeau wrote:
Nobody is excusing when someone on the left goes homicidal but this is not even close to a "both sides are idiots" BS equivalency

Uh, you just excused it. Our body count is smaller than their body count. Christ.

gcomeau wrote:
And to repeat the earlier question, seeing the theme yet?

https://www.startribune.com/police-umbr ... 571932272/

A masked man who was seen in a viral video smashing the windows of a south Minneapolis auto parts store during the George Floyd protests, earning him the moniker “Umbrella Man,” is suspected to be a member of the Hell’s Angels biker gang seeking to incite racial tension in a demonstration that until then had been peaceful, police said.

...

Police have also connected the 32-year-old man to a widely-publicized incident in Stillwater late last month, in which a Muslim woman was confronted by a group of men wearing white supremacist garb.

I’m definitely seeing A Theme. Not, however, the theme you’re seeing.

gcomeau wrote:
Just stop pulling this "both sides" BS. Only one side has the actual GOAL of inciting that civil war you are talking about. And they are taking actions to try to make it happen. And you're just trying to sit up on your pedestal pretending like you're above it all by declaring a pox on everyone's houses.

When there is a gross disparity between the evil and harm done and pursued by two sides of an issue then artificially pretending they are equally bad is picking a side. You're helping one side and harming another. And the side you're helping is the "let's start a race war" side. That's a choice you're making.

[/quote]

Unfortunately, that’s a logical fallacy. You can only declare that there’s no middle ground if there really is no middle ground. If there is nobody on the other side you can talk to, because they’re all a bunch of white supremacist fellow travellers. Likewise, you can only demand someone pick a side if there really is no ‘pox on both your houses’ position.

There’s a choice you are making as well, which is to demonise your opposition- even when they’re not your actual opposition. If I’m not agreeing that your side is completely right, I’m helping the race war crowd. This makes me A Bad Person in your sight. It also places you on a pedestal of your very own.

Polarisation, in a nutshell.