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What should the Republican's do now?

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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Daryl   » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:57 am

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Interesting perspective in -

"ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN lean left
MSNBC, NPR, NY Times are very left
FoxNews, Wall Street Journal lean right
Most talk radio is very right

Relative to the positions of the US electorate."

From the rest of the developed world's view your centre line is skewed. From our perspective your very left are slightly leftish, your left is slightly rightish, and your leaning right are biased up to being fictional.

During the second IRAQ war I had access to a secure media room that had feeds from all over. On the first day FOX said that "35 brave US soldiers had been murdered by Iraqi insurgents, but US forces had inflicted heavy losses in return". The French news said "10,000 untrained and ill-equipped Iraqi regular army conscripts had been massacred by vastly superior US firepower during the invasion, US losses were only 35 soldiers".

Same story and at that point same facts but a very different slant. Condolences to grieving families on both sides, but calling soldiers in the regular Iraqi army who were defending their country against an invasion by foreign powers, insurgents, was twisted and insulting.
Later on in that war Fox seemed to just write what they wanted without recourse to facts at all.
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:35 am

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biochem wrote:Ummm. You seemed to miss the part about APPROVE any MODERATE judges Obama appoints.


Meaning that there wont be any approved because by republican standards, just about any and everyone that Obama might appoint is by default one of those evil left wingers.

biochem wrote:ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN lean left
MSNBC, NPR, NY Times are very left
FoxNews, Wall Street Journal lean right
Most talk radio is very right

Relative to the positions of the US electorate.


First of all, Fox may not be honest about it, but they´re waaaay further out in the field than just "lean right".
Worse still is the fact that Fox is purely a mouthpiece for some greedy old rich guys, Fox rarely reports news, they provide propaganda.

Secondly, USA is one of the most extremely rightwing nations politically on earth. Even the US communist party is just barely leftwing.

Thirdly, those you state "lean left", ehm taken as a pack, no, just no.

biochem wrote:Ummm. You realize that Obamacare isn't anywhere close to single payer, right? I know you don't like US healthcare but Obamacare is a horrible mess that actually makes US health care WORSE than it was before it was implemented. .


I´m perfectly aware that it´s massively flawed. But if the only thing that is done is get rid of it again, that will only make an even BIGGER mess. One way or another you just have to come up with a way to replace it or fix it, because just removing it is nearly guaranteed to end up so much worse that what you have now looks like blissful perfection.

biochem wrote:Actually your info is a bit outdated. Republicans used to be the party of crony capitalists. However the Democrats have now taken over that position. Basically, the Democrats favor big government and the crony capitalists want to misuse government in an anti-competative fashion. The bigger the government, the easier it is to do this. So the crony capitalists and the Democrats both have a mutual interest in maximizing the size of government.


:mrgreen:

Please! Don´t tell me you actually believe that.

Oh it´s not that there are none cuddling up with the dems, because there´s definitely plenty of those. But the scale and the intermixing of interests is a magnitude less.

That drivel is just a bunch of halftruths and even outright lies that some republican factions like to exploit because it´s impossible to prove the absence of something.

The big government bogeyman is a stupid faerytale that you really should be embarassed to reiterate.

And "anti-competitive fashion"? You will find both the worst culprits as well as the biggest opponents of it among the republicans.
The dems tend more to be in the "opposed but not rabidly so" camp.

It´s sad to see how easily the republicans keep on using conspiracy myths to spread fear of their opposition.

Why don´t you think about that for a while, who are trying to make you afraid to vote on anyone but them?

-Oh hello Fox news i was just talking about you...
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Annachie   » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:37 pm

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They should pass a law that allows the Homeland Security Secretary to revoke the US citizenship of anyone not born in the USA, regardless of whether they've commited a crime or not. With no government review process of course.
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:36 am

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Annachie wrote:They should pass a law that allows the Homeland Security Secretary to revoke the US citizenship of anyone not born in the USA, regardless of whether they've commited a crime or not. With no government review process of course.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_crvGziPn3g
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Zakharra   » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:39 pm

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Tenshinai wrote:
biochem wrote:ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN lean left
MSNBC, NPR, NY Times are very left
FoxNews, Wall Street Journal lean right
Most talk radio is very right

Relative to the positions of the US electorate.


First of all, Fox may not be honest about it, but they´re waaaay further out in the field than just "lean right".
Worse still is the fact that Fox is purely a mouthpiece for some greedy old rich guys, Fox rarely reports news, they provide propaganda.

Secondly, USA is one of the most extremely rightwing nations politically on earth. Even the US communist party is just barely leftwing.

Thirdly, those you state "lean left", ehm taken as a pack, no, just no.


By US standards, the list you quoted is quite accurate. Fox News is one of the more right wing, but ABC, CBS, NBC are left leaning at the least. MSNBC, NPR, NY Times definitely left. You have to remember that US standards of political leanings isn't European standards, so what is right/left here isn't the same as right/left over in Europe. So trying to apply European political leanings to the US and vise versa is going to confuse and fail since what is left and right differ between the US and Europe.
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Daryl   » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:04 am

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"You have to remember that US standards of political leanings isn't European standards, so what is right/left here isn't the same as right/left over in Europe. So trying to apply European political leanings to the US and vise versa is going to confuse and fail since what is left and right differ between the US and Europe."

That's the whole point we non US people are trying to make. Incidentally it isn't just European standards either, but all developed countries other than the US.

One of the respected US commentators here referred to Obama as a hard left demagogue. To outside US people he is a moderate right politician.
My belief is that we aren't criticizing the US as such, or suggesting that your system is wrong for you, but just pointing out that you are very different to the rest of us in your view of the world.
I'd like to visit the US to see some of your natural wonders but my wife would refuse to come as you have the death penalty, lots of influential kristians (even have to misspell it because I'm using a US program that insists on capitalising the c), and loose gun laws. Pity, as I get on well with Americans and your countryside looks interesting.
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Zakharra   » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:07 pm

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Daryl wrote:"You have to remember that US standards of political leanings isn't European standards, so what is right/left here isn't the same as right/left over in Europe. So trying to apply European political leanings to the US and vise versa is going to confuse and fail since what is left and right differ between the US and Europe."

That's the whole point we non US people are trying to make. Incidentally it isn't just European standards either, but all developed countries other than the US.

One of the respected US commentators here referred to Obama as a hard left demagogue. To outside US people he is a moderate right politician.
My belief is that we aren't criticizing the US as such, or suggesting that your system is wrong for you, but just pointing out that you are very different to the rest of us in your view of the world.
I'd like to visit the US to see some of your natural wonders but my wife would refuse to come as you have the death penalty, lots of influential kristians (even have to misspell it because I'm using a US program that insists on capitalising the c), and loose gun laws. Pity, as I get on well with Americans and your countryside looks interesting.



Ok, I can understand that view point. To the US, the rest of the developed world is pretty much leftist/socialist in government. Different views though.

Uumm. I'm not sure why your wife would be afraid of christians, there is freedom of religion, people are not taken away for violating religious tenets. The death penalty is not used that often and is only used for people convicted of horrific crimes and the gun laws? Does she think the US is like thew Olde West where there is a gunfight every day or so in most places? The US is very safe. No more dangerous than any other modern nation (provided you stay out of high crime areas, but every nation has those). Tourists are as safe here as in any other nation. You're safer in the US than say Mexico. There's a lot to see in the US, and in Canada.
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Tenshinai   » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:04 pm

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Zakharra wrote:Uumm. I'm not sure why your wife would be afraid of christians, there is freedom of religion,


As long as you´re a good and honest to god christian.

Zakharra wrote:The death penalty is not used that often and is only used for people convicted of horrific crimes


And people convicted because "they looked really guilty!". :roll:

Not that often? Only reason it´s not used often now is because medical companies are refusing to sell the compounds used.

Zakharra wrote:The US is very safe.


Not really. Regardless how you rate nations as safe or not, USA ends up in the lower half.
Out of 150-220ish nations/territories depending on what is looked at specifically.

Nordic countries, parts of Europe, Australia, NZ, Canada and Japan always keep ending up on top.

http://ohtopten.com/top-10-safest-count ... the-world/
http://top10thebest.com/top-10-safest-c ... -or-visit/
http://travel.amerikanki.com/most-peace ... the-world/
http://www.divinecaroline.com/life-etc/ ... ries-visit

You wont find USA on any list like that, regardless how serious or simple.

Again, you show that you do not know about the real world.

Zakharra wrote:Tourists are as safe here as in any other nation. You're safer in the US than say Mexico.


No really? Maybe you should be told then that Mexico is a VERY UNSAFE country to be in.
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by DDHvi   » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:58 pm

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Instead of left and right, I strongly prefer the Pournelle chart, developed by one of our own. Search on (Pournelle chart) to see its two dimensional structure, which makes much more sense of today's ideologies. However, it has been pointed out elsewhere that while most agree that some measure of government is needed, the basic question of who should be in charge is not settled by rational means. Rational on JP's chart stands for those who think reason and logic are key, not to those who use it. This doesn't seem to be thought out well enough, I'm having a problem saying it clearly.

It should also be pointed out that different axioms produce different logical systems. It would be really nice to have a system that would carefully examine the real results from the various patterns used in governments, and compare them with the predicted results of those who put that pattern into place. But who would test the testers :?: :|

Anyone interested in politics should realize that today it is not really about civics (vote for someone to represent you, and they really do it) but about pressure. Many foolish things get into law because some special interest applies pressure and most of us don't take the time to do more than vote. Many don't even do that much.

One group thinks we should apply pressure as citizens and provided this:

http://getliberty.org/wp-content/upload ... -14-15.pdf

which I have just found and not yet had time to study in detail. Take a look and comment, please.

In theory, we have a representational republic. If the elected don't hear from anyone but special interests, how are they going to represent us, even when they want to do so :?: We should study and think through to what seems the most sensible, and then do our duty as citizens.

PS. There have been times when those who did not want to do what we ask have backed down in the face of lasting citizen outrage. A flash doesn't do much.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd
ddhviste@drtel.net

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Re: What should the Republican's do now?
Post by Annachie   » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:30 am

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Shoot the Koch brothers. Figeratively speaking. Politics, in general, is heading to the fringes and that's not good for anyone in the long run.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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still not dead. :)
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