Israel/Gaza - Here we go again...

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11z2j34k4o

Four Israeli hostages freed in raid in central Gaza

Finally some good news!
That said, there are already media commentators bemoaning the fact that around 50 Gazans were killed, when the IDF moved in; under heavy fire, to liberate the hostages in two locations.
IMO, I say fuck ‘em! Better them, than having the 4 liberated hostages join the more than the 30-40 hostages that have been reported killed while being held hostage!

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-07-28/

Erdogan says Turkey might enter Israel to help Palestinians

We haven’t heard from Erdogan of Turkey for a while, so one can only hope that his latest announcement is simply a cry for attention.
He has intimated that Turkey is thinking about “entering Israel” to intervene on behalf of the Palestinians. Similar to the way they intervened in Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh.
Now you don’t have to be a expert in international relations to know that “entering Israel” would in no way be similar to their intervention in the two aforementioned states, it would be a direct declaration of war with Israel!
Erdogan knows this, so is simply an attempt to climb on to the world stage and media. Or like with his actions, when he played games with Sweden joining NATO, in other words he wants something:
If serious, then it would be a war between a firm American ally and a NATO country!
Wouldn’t that be a can of worms!!!

A nuclear armed ally of the US.

Arol wrote:https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/erdogan-says-turkey-might-enter-israel-help-palestinians-2024-07-28/

Erdogan says Turkey might enter Israel to help Palestinians

We haven’t heard from Erdogan of Turkey for a while, so one can only hope that his latest announcement is simply a cry for attention.
He has intimated that Turkey is thinking about “entering Israel” to intervene on behalf of the Palestinians. Similar to the way they intervened in Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh.
Now you don’t have to be a expert in international relations to know that “entering Israel” would in no way be similar to their intervention in the two aforementioned states, it would be a direct declaration of war with Israel!
Erdogan knows this, so is simply an attempt to climb on to the world stage and media. Or like with his actions, when he played games with Sweden joining NATO, in other words he wants something:
If serious, then it would be a war between a firm American ally and a NATO country!
Wouldn’t that be a can of worms!!!

Yes there is that little caveat! Israel’s “reputed” nuclear arsenal.
Something that even Erdogan must know.
Which may be the reason that he is talking about “entering” Israel, and not declaring war. But as to how he intends to entre without declaring war remains a mystery.
So the odds are he’s just blowing smoke, or like the huckster he is, hoping someone will buy him off.’

Fuad Shukr the Hezbollah terrorist leader responsible for the rocket attack that killed 13 young boys and children playing soccer on a sports field, was himself killed when an Israeli rocket took his life.
Proportionality, I don’t think so!
One dead terrorist, for thirteen young children who had their lives cut short.
If asked, I think that the parents and family of the boys would agree!

Just as a minor point regarding Civilian Casualties, Hamas aims to cause them while Israel doesn't go out of its way to do so, but since Hamas has almost perfected the use of human shields (including putting armouries/bunkers underneath schools, hospitals and so on), then striking at Hamas will cause civilian casualties.
Ironically, Hamas leadership are actually safer from direct attack in Palestine due to the human shields they routinely use since other nations like to at least slightly physically seperate civilian and non-civilian operations, removing the living shields that the Hamas leadership relies on.

During the Troubles, the IRA occasionally used similar methods, but generally stuck their supply caches in areas where people didn't normally go in order to avoid killing their own with accidental explosions. Then again, the IRA were only fighting for a re-united homeland (and were willing to stop bombing/switch to pure politics after their supporters in America discovered on Sept 11 just what terrorism meant, thus causing them to abandon the cause as it was no longer romantic) whereas Hamas' prime stated goal is genocide.

And yes, American support for the IRA dropped hugely after Sep 11th, as did financial donations towards "our brave green lads fighting the good fight in the ol' homeland".
As a Brit, I admit to feeling a little bit of schadenfreude over that aspect of the otherwise-horrific assault.

Michael Everett wrote:Just as a minor point regarding Civilian Casualties, Hamas aims to cause them while Israel doesn't go out of its way to do so, but since Hamas has almost perfected the use of human shields (including putting armouries/bunkers underneath schools, hospitals and so on), then striking at Hamas will cause civilian casualties.
Ironically, Hamas leadership are actually safer from direct attack in Palestine due to the human shields they routinely use since other nations like to at least slightly physically seperate civilian and non-civilian operations, removing the living shields that the Hamas leadership relies on.

During the Troubles, the IRA occasionally used similar methods, but generally stuck their supply caches in areas where people didn't normally go in order to avoid killing their own with accidental explosions. Then again, the IRA were only fighting for a re-united homeland (and were willing to stop bombing/switch to pure politics after their supporters in America discovered on Sept 11 just what terrorism meant, thus causing them to abandon the cause as it was no longer romantic) whereas Hamas' prime stated goal is genocide.

And yes, American support for the IRA dropped hugely after Sep 11th, as did financial donations towards "our brave green lads fighting the good fight in the ol' homeland".
As a Brit, I admit to feeling a little bit of schadenfreude over that aspect of the otherwise-horrific assault.

Spot on !!!

Michael Everett wrote:Just as a minor point regarding Civilian Casualties, Hamas aims to cause them while Israel doesn't go out of its way to do so, but since Hamas has almost perfected the use of human shields (including putting armouries/bunkers underneath schools, hospitals and so on), then striking at Hamas will cause civilian casualties.

Yes, thank you, we've heard israeli propaganda before.
Now, please square this with the many, many documented instances of israeli soldiers actually going out of their way to inflict various war crimes (or, what would be war crimes if this was a war) on palestinian civilians.

See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Afr ... nst_Israel

The whole "Hamas is hiding under hospitals and schools" narrative is bullshit. It's been debunked multiple times already, with both OSINT and traditional journalists reporting on it.

Israel is engaged in an ongoing genocide and will likely not stop until Gaza has been reduced to rubble.

Ironically, Hamas leadership are actually safer from direct attack in Palestine due to the human shields they routinely use since other nations like to at least slightly physically seperate civilian and non-civilian operations, removing the living shields that the Hamas leadership relies on.

If only the israeli military were as virtuous as you portrait them. They have a fucking AI telling them it's okay to bomb places, for crying out loud.

See also:
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024 ... de-in-gaza
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/20/middleea ... index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw07wgrwzywo

The E wrote:...Israel is engaged in an ongoing genocide and will likely not stop until Gaza has been reduced to rubble...

Your use of the word “genocide” is incredible!
There are two sides in the Gaza War. On one side Israel, on the other Gaza/Hamas. Now which of those two sides has as its prime goal genocide of the other? Hamas has both in words and deeds openly made no secret in that its very existence is based on expunging Israel and all Israelis’ from the face of the globe! That they currently possess neither the ways and means to accomplish their aim, yet, Oct 7th, showed their intention to the whole world.
As for the Israelis, they possess both the ways and means; whether nuclear, biological or chemical to carry out the “genocide” of which you’re accusing them!
Will you actually maintain that Gaza/Hamas; if they were obtained the same means would, would practice the same restraint?
Israel is trying to root out an enemy that has sworn to destroy them. The very fact that there are still over 3 million Gazans crawling from one pile of rubble to another, proves the fallacy of your accusation!

This tribal war has been going since before Islam existed and even the Jewish religion. Neither side are behaving well.
I saw an interview with a senior HAMAS leader who said their initial atrocities were designed to provoke exactly the response they got from the Jewish hard liners. Takes a particular level of ruthlessnes to hope your enemy will slaughter your women and children so as to garner international support. At the same time it takes a particular level of ruthlessness to go along with that, seeing families in the bomb sights yet going ahead.
Not helped by the leaders of both sides needing the war to continue. If hostilities cease, Netanyahu will cease to be the "fearless wartime leader", and his prior legal problems will bring him down. The HAMAS leaders are in a similar predicament.

To me the US on both political sides are not helping, as they are scared of the two voting blocks, so are trying to be even handed. Will Harris take advantage of a 4 year window to slap both sides down? Possibly, as the male postures while an alpha female strikes?

Arol wrote:

The E wrote:...Israel is engaged in an ongoing genocide and will likely not stop until Gaza has been reduced to rubble...

Your use of the word “genocide” is incredible!
There are two sides in the Gaza War. On one side Israel, on the other Gaza/Hamas. Now which of those two sides has as its prime goal genocide of the other? Hamas has both in words and deeds openly made no secret in that its very existence is based on expunging Israel and all Israelis’ from the face of the globe! That they currently possess neither the ways and means to accomplish their aim, yet, Oct 7th, showed their intention to the whole world.
As for the Israelis, they possess both the ways and means; whether nuclear, biological or chemical to carry out the “genocide” of which you’re accusing them!
Will you actually maintain that Gaza/Hamas; if they were obtained the same means would, would practice the same restraint?
Israel is trying to root out an enemy that has sworn to destroy them. The very fact that there are still over 3 million Gazans crawling from one pile of rubble to another, proves the fallacy of your accusation!