Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine

I guess that at some point a mediator will be needed!
Personally I don’t foresee the need for one, until one of the sides has been bloodied enough to agree to sit down without pre-conditions.
A time at which someone with a leg in both camps might come in handy!
But who’s to say that the someone might be Erdogan?
He’s got an iffy election coming up in in mid May.
With the families, friends and relatives of 80,000 dead earthquake victims, together with the tenants of over 150,000 destroyed housing and places of business, all looking for someone to scapegoat![/quote]

Good point If politicians want the credit when things go wrong it is only fair that they get the credit when things go wrong. Don't expect the result to be an improvement however.

Don

-[/quote]
One can hope that Erdogan will end up paying the piper!
Especially if Kemal Kilicdaroglu; and the broad coalition of parties supporting him, manages to toss him and his AKP party out of power in todays election.

https://www.politico.eu/article/turkey- ... mir-putin/

Erdoğan: I have a ‘special relationship’ with Putin — and it’s only growing
‘Russia and Turkey need each other in every field possible,’ says Turkish president.

“Keep Your Friends Close; and Your Enemies Closer”
It was apparently Sun Tzu who hit the nail on the head, as to why NATO; pragmatics and real politik considerations aside, hasn’t booted Turkey out of the alliance!
I ask as a layman, can it really be sane for what is essentially a military alliance, to have one of its members, so cozy with the very same potential enemy, it was created and still exist to protect against?

The latest boast from Wagner that they have conquered Bahkmut reminds me of the old story of "the mice have gained the cheese"
When will the trap close?

Arol wrote:https://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-special-relationship-russia-grow-recep-tayyip-erdogan-valdimir-putin/

Erdoğan: I have a ‘special relationship’ with Putin — and it’s only growing
‘Russia and Turkey need each other in every field possible,’ says Turkish president.

“Keep Your Friends Close; and Your Enemies Closer”
It was apparently Sun Tzu who hit the nail on the head, as to why NATO; pragmatics and real politik considerations aside, hasn’t booted Turkey out of the alliance!
I ask as a layman, can it really be sane for what is essentially a military alliance, to have one of its members, so cozy with the very same potential enemy, it was created and still exist to protect against?

While I love to have Sweden join NATO and am really put out with Erdogan for blocking them I am sorry to have to say that Turkey is far, far more important for NATO than Sweden is. Turkey is located in an extremely important geographic and strategic position. With it controlling the Dardanelles and passage to and from the Black Sea, seperating and shielding Europe from the Middle East on the one hand and being a significant military power on Russia's southern frontier. Rather have Turkey as an ally even if its an obstinate and currently not totally trustworthy one. Also I bet that at some point in the not too distant future Turkey will have to relent. They have too many problems for me to believe they will be able to afford this idiocy indefinitely. We'll have to be patient and put up with this nonsense for a while I am afraid. But in the end we'll have both countries in NATO.

Bruno Behrends wrote:While I love to have Sweden join NATO and am really put out with Erdogan for blocking them I am sorry to have to say that Turkey is far, far more important for NATO than Sweden is. Turkey is located in an extremely important geographic and strategic position. With it controlling the Dardanelles and passage to and from the Black Sea, separating and shielding Europe from the Middle East on the one hand and being a significant military power on Russia's southern frontier. Rather have Turkey as an ally even if its an obstinate and currently not totally trustworthy one. Also I bet that at some point in the not too distant future Turkey will have to relent. They have too many problems for me to believe they will be able to afford this idiocy indefinitely. We'll have to be patient and put up with this nonsense for a while I am afraid. But in the end we'll have both countries in NATO.

On the face of it, you are certainly correct in saying that Sweden by itself, (I’m being pragmatic and realistic), is of less importance then Turkey. But looking at the whole picture, if (Big “if“ I know!) Sweden was a NATO member, the Baltic would then be composed of a solid core of NATO countries. By blackballing Sweden’s application Erdogan is playing Putin’s game by putting a chip in that wall!
Your outline of Turkey’s importance to the Alliance is spot on! But it only holds true if Erdogan and Turkey was a dependable member!
Despite all the pretty words in the preamble to the NATO Charter, it is a military alliance, conceived and established in 1949 to rein in any Russian territorial acquisitiveness in Europe.
It is therefore disturbing to see a powerful member like Turkey crawl further and further into bed into bed with the very country the alliance was created to contain!
You are pretty certain, that Sweden in the end will be accepted into the Alliance. But given that Erdogan retains political power, it’s equally possible it will give him enough wind in the sails, to become even more intransigent!