Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Spoilers! Loose threads

Aliens? Invading aliens? What will Earth do? Well...we may have a few more resources than we first thought. Come join a friendly discussion about David Weber's newest Tor series - "Out of the Dark."
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:39 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Admiral

Posts: 2259
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Joat42 wrote:Are you proposing that they build...lead balloons? ;)


The Mythbusters proved that you can fly lead balloons...

And they did that without countergrav.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:04 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 6432
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

We don't know that any of the OG's machines soak up radiation. We do know that nanites soak up radiation. So, if they still exist as nanites, any radiation "black holes" are likely populations of OGs. Assuming that humanity is following the OG technological development pathway, they likely adopted the energy syphon from phase space that humanity just managed.

If they do soak up energy, I doubt they would soak up enough to be obvious. They would soak up enough to be indistinguishable from the ambient levels of radiation.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:58 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Admiral

Posts: 2259
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

PeterZ wrote:If they do soak up energy, I doubt they would soak up enough to be obvious. They would soak up enough to be indistinguishable from the ambient levels of radiation.


There's only so much ambient energy that can be used, even under noon sunlight. Just absorbing from the environment might be enough to sustain a nanite cloud keeping the form of a person, but I doubt it's enough for machinery that does useful things.

The lab likely consumes a lot more energy (if active) but it's also probably shielded. They probably have better power sources too and you don't have to get fancy with phase space: a simple geothermal sink could suffice. And like the Dvorak farm, they probably spread the thermal output over such a large area that it's indistinguishable from background emissions.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:18 pm

Loren Pechtel
Commodore

Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:24 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Human rate of development: we know it's the highest ever recorded, but why is it? Is it a natural occurrence? Or were we tinkered with? If so, by whom? And if not, the Law of Averages says there will be others who could approach or surpass our record, so are we going to meet them?


Do we actually know that? Humanity has a very fast rate of development compared to a whole bunch of herbivores, but do we know much about the carnivores? They normally develop technologies that can destroy them and do so--it's unlikely the Hegemony observed them often enough to see what the rate of advancement is.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:36 pm

Loren Pechtel
Commodore

Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:24 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:We have evolved from hunter-gatherers to farmers and herders. And unlike Vlad, this fifth race would have evolved into nanites gradually. They'd have benefited from the precursor technologies too.


Disagree--you don't "evolve" into nanites. If the fifth race became nanites it is because of a deliberate ascension, not evolution. Thus it could have been basically instant. They developed nanite tech and then decided as a race to move to nanite forms.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:45 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Admiral

Posts: 2259
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Loren Pechtel wrote:Do we actually know that? Humanity has a very fast rate of development compared to a whole bunch of herbivores, but do we know much about the carnivores? They normally develop technologies that can destroy them and do so--it's unlikely the Hegemony observed them often enough to see what the rate of advancement is.


I don't remember the exact text, but I got the impression that we are the fastest, even including carnivores that blew themselves up, after studying the records in the database.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:47 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Admiral

Posts: 2259
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Loren Pechtel wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:We have evolved from hunter-gatherers to farmers and herders. And unlike Vlad, this fifth race would have evolved into nanites gradually. They'd have benefited from the precursor technologies too.


Disagree--you don't "evolve" into nanites. If the fifth race became nanites it is because of a deliberate ascension, not evolution. Thus it could have been basically instant. They developed nanite tech and then decided as a race to move to nanite forms.


Oh, sure. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it was a natural occurrence!

What I meant was that the transition is gradual. You begin by having nanobots in your bloodstream to help fighting viruses and infections, then repair damage. From there, you can go to boosting mental and physical strength, regrowing limbs. After the point where you can use them to change shape at will, you realise that you're basically the sum of nanites anyway.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by Isilith   » Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:25 am

Isilith
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:58 am

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:Do we actually know that? Humanity has a very fast rate of development compared to a whole bunch of herbivores, but do we know much about the carnivores? They normally develop technologies that can destroy them and do so--it's unlikely the Hegemony observed them often enough to see what the rate of advancement is.


I don't remember the exact text, but I got the impression that we are the fastest, even including carnivores that blew themselves up, after studying the records in the database.


Wasn't an impression, it stated it flatly in the first book. Humanity wasn't just a little faster, we were way out ahead of what anyone had ever done.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by Joat42   » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:45 pm

Joat42
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:01 am
Location: Sweden

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:Do we actually know that? Humanity has a very fast rate of development compared to a whole bunch of herbivores, but do we know much about the carnivores? They normally develop technologies that can destroy them and do so--it's unlikely the Hegemony observed them often enough to see what the rate of advancement is.


I don't remember the exact text, but I got the impression that we are the fastest, even including carnivores that blew themselves up, after studying the records in the database.

Isilith wrote:Wasn't an impression, it stated it flatly in the first book. Humanity wasn't just a little faster, we were way out ahead of what anyone had ever done.

Based on the information that was available to the Shongairi that's true, but we have no way of knowing what else has been redacted from the GH encyclopedia like the 5th race was.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
Top
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:21 am

Loren Pechtel
Commodore

Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:24 pm

Joat42 wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:Wasn't an impression, it stated it flatly in the first book. Humanity wasn't just a little faster, we were way out ahead of what anyone had ever done.

Based on the information that was available to the Shongairi that's true, but we have no way of knowing what else has been redacted from the GH encyclopedia like the 5th race was.


I'm also questioning how much the Shongairi knew--the surveys are obviously very infrequent, how much will they know about the evolution rate of a race that destroys itself.
Top

Return to Out of the Dark